Does Morph include Hermaphromorph?

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by downer

You treat Morph as a chemical/biological thing.

Morph is a chemical/biological thing. Assuming they exist in your campaign, you can Morph into a race with corrosive Acid for saliva, or a Robot with Steel Frame and Silicon Brain, or a Dragon capable of Breathing Fire, or any number of other things. And you are a perfect mimic of those templates; your saliva melts peoples faces off, your skin has the hardness (and DR) of steel, your brain has the speed and perfect memory of a computer, or your breath can burn down a house.

The only way you can explain those changes, and the fact that the Morph takes on all of the characteristics of the template, is that the Morph is changing down to the chemical/biological level (unless the Morph is using some form of "weird energy" like Magic, but that would be it's own Limitation). If the change were merely cosmetic... that's what the Cosmetic limitation is for. If you're taking on the full capabilities of the template then you have to be mimicing them on not only chemical level but also on an elemental level. Genetic mimicry is actually easier to explain than explaining how your blood can turn into Acid and your skin into Steel.

Originally Posted by downer

If that is the case in your setting, then, like I said, you should include reproductive capability after a sex-changing morph as a 0-point feature.

Absolutely, yes, as I said how breeding and reproduction are handled are 0-point features. It's not "In order to interbreed the Morph also needs Hermaphormorph."

Originally Posted by downer

But that isn't inherent in the advantage. Magic might allow you to "emulate" the effects of another form without any special glands or tissues.

In which case Morph would have the Magic Limitation and no longer be the "stock" Morph advantage.

Originally Posted by downer

Your morphable body might consist of a colony of cell that can specialize into anything (glandular tissue, muscle cells, whatever) without actually imitating the DNA of the target. Such cells might become inert upon separating from you (making sperm impossible).

Similar to the Shapeshifters in Deep Space Nine, yes. Sounds like a good limitation to me, as this provides another possible way of detecting the Morph (as they did on Deep Space Nine with blood screenings, because a casual genetic scan wouldn't work since the Shapeshifters couldn't be detected that way), again making it no longer the "stock" Morph advantage. "Stock" Morph allows you to replace your base racial template with that of the target template, with any inherent capabilities (and limitation) that may come with. Those capabilities, for most biological races, include the ability to reproduce as a 0-point feature.

[davidtmoore]

While we're at it, there's no reason to believe that magical shapeshift wouldn't allow breeding. (Since, in a magical world, fertility and breeding could arguably function in a magical way anyway).

Loki shapechanged into a mare to lure away the giant horse Svaðilfari, and ended up bearing Sleipnir, so clearly his magically-assumed female form was fertile.

And Zeus is forever seducing human and semi-divine women in various animal forms, and always successfully fathers divine children on them...

[downer]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Morph is a chemical/biological thing. Assuming they exist in your campaign, you can Morph into a race with corrosive Acid for saliva, or a Robot with Steel Frame and Silicon Brain, or a Dragon capable of Breathing Fire, or any number of other things. And you are a perfect mimic of those templates; your saliva melts peoples faces off, your skin has the hardness (and DR) of steel, your brain has the speed and perfect memory of a computer, or your breath can burn down a house.

The only way you can explain those changes, and the fact that the Morph takes on all of the characteristics of the template, is that the Morph is changing down to the chemical/biological level (unless the Morph is using some form of "weird energy" like Magic, but that would be it's own Limitation). If the change were merely cosmetic... that's what the Cosmetic limitation is for. If you're taking on the full capabilities of the template then you have to be mimicing them on not only chemical level but also on an elemental level. Genetic mimicry is actually easier to explain than explaining how your blood can turn into Acid and your skin into Steel.

No, it isn't. Morph is not a "realistic" ability in any way. So any explanation is as good as any other. No real world creature can morph, for reasons both biological and physical (thermodynamics and stuff). So, whatever reason you give for being able to morph is going to be fantastical in some way, no reason to assume anything.

Similar to the Shapeshifters in Deep Space Nine, yes. Sounds like a good limitation to me, as this provides another possible way of detecting the Morph (as they did on Deep Space Nine with blood screenings, because a casual genetic scan wouldn't work), again making it no longer the "stock" Morph advantage. "Stock" Morph allows you to replace your base racial template with that of the target template, with any inherent capabilities (and limitation) that may come with. Those capabilities, for most biological races, include the ability to reproduce as a 0-point feature.

I never said they didn't. But is gender a function of racial template? I wouldn't think so. Most racial templates wouldn't include, say, "female" as a 0-point feature. So, you don't get it, if you were male before the morph. Meaning that, even if you take the shape of a female, you are still male, because that is a feature of the individual, not of an entire race.

[downer]

Originally Posted by davidtmoore

While we're at it, there's no reason to believe that magical shapeshift wouldn't allow breeding. (Since, in a magical world, fertility and breeding could arguably function in a magical way anyway).

Loki shapechanged into a mare to lure away the giant horse Svaðilfari, and ended up bearing Sleipnir, so clearly his magically-assumed female form was fertile.

And Zeus is forever seducing human and semi-divine women in various animal forms, and always successfully fathers divine children on them...

Right. The only question a GM needs to answer is whether he wants that ability to cost extra, or not.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by downer

I never said they didn't. But is gender a function of racial template?

Yes, it is. It's a 0-point feature; you get to choose which one you are at character creation. If it's a choice, and costs no points, that's the functional definition of a 0-point feature in GURPS.

Or, lets turn this around, if Hair Color is a personal feature, does that mean that you have to keep it when you Morph? You have to Morph into a Redheaded Polar Bear? Or a pale skinned Klingon?

Originally Posted by downer

I wouldn't think so. Most racial templates wouldn't include, say, "female" as a 0-point feature.

Of course not, and they don't list "Breathes Oxygen" or "Drinks Water" or "Has FP" or "Green Skin" or any number of other 0-point features as well. That would be time consuming and pointless (pun intended). Templates only list those changes that have significant game mechanical effects, meaning the only Racial Templates that will list sex are those where the differences in the sexes is significant enough to warrant different templates.

Originally Posted by downer

So, you don't get it, if you were male before the morph. Meaning that, even if you take the shape of a female, you are still male, because that is a feature of the individual, not of an entire race.

Would you say that you can't shapeshift into a Redhead because the Human Racial Template doesn't list hair color as a 0-point feature?

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by downer

But is gender a function of racial template? I wouldn't think so.

Gender is a function of racial template, just like any other part of the appearance of what you morph into, including earlobes, finger length, foldable tongues, eye color and anything else you could ever use to distinguish someone.


What you're describing isn't base Morph, you're talking about Morph limited by a version of Flawed -10%, see Powers p.75, it's an imperfect Morph.

But if you have normal Morph you can turn into Pamela Anderson and go bear Tommy Lee's children, which kids on a genetic test would show to be descendants of Tommy and Pamela, with no genetic contribution from you.

[downer]

Very well. I stand corrected.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

But if you have normal Morph you can turn into Pamela Anderson and go bear Tommy Lee's children, which kids on a genetic test would show to be descendants of Tommy and Pamela, with no genetic contribution from you.

Yes. In fact, you could do this with just Alternate Form, which leads back to the connection between Hermaphromorph and that singular version of Shapeshifting.

[Arcanist Xerxes]

Originally Posted by chimchim

I am guessing not as the text does not specifically state you get it free but it sure seems to makes sense that it does.

I would say yes (even for breeding) unless you have "Cosmetic Only" limitation