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Old 08-23-2020, 11:12 PM   #111
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Why would there be? Most characters with extra arms are in setting where having extra arms is totally normal for at least one race.
In such a setting, DR could also be totally normal for at least one race, so I'm not seeing your point.

Extra Arms have an obvious "oh look, he can use extra arms, that is advantageous" so why not DR too?
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Old 08-23-2020, 11:15 PM   #112
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
In such a setting, DR could also be totally normal for at least one race, so I'm not seeing your point.

Extra Arms have an obvious "oh look, he can use extra arms, that is advantageous" so why not DR too?
DR can have that. It's just not worth any points in itself. Let's consider the positives and negatives of obvious DR. On the one hand you can't take people by total surprise with your DR (although they'd just be guessing at how protective it actually ise). On other, if you are obviously a rock monster, then you can use that for intimidation against people who aren't armed for it. I'd say it's pretty even.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 08-24-2020 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:00 AM   #113
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default

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Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
Those Ultratech and fantasy creatures have DR with "No Signature" added? Just because a creature has an appearance and DR at the same time doesn't mean they have to be connected. Creatures have appearances. Sometimes you can tell things about them from their appearance. That's not related to the DR trait. That's explicitly included in the Krommquote Vicky posted.
...No. They have obviously visible DR, with no limitation.

Yes, GURPS books present character sheets with unmodified DR where the DR is pretty clearly meant to be invisible. But you also said that if it's visible you should take a limitation. And there are many examples of DR that is visible, and no limitation is applied. You can, as Anthony notes, find both those things in the same book quite easily. That's the part of what you said that isn't, in fact, how GURPS as written does things.
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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
In general GURPS just treats 'what you look like' as a zero point feature, unless it has side effects like a social stigma. In Transhuman Space: Changing Times, none of the cybershells have any visibility enhancements or limitations on their DR, despite the fact that some of them are obvious about it (RATS) and others are not (Infiltration Android).
Yes, I know this.

I am arguing at length that that is a terrible rules choice. Not that it isn't true.
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:53 AM   #114
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Default Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I am arguing at length that that is a terrible rules choice. Not that it isn't true.
While I don't consider having concealed power useless, it's fair to say that it isn't very well correlated with the point cost of the advantage, so the GURPS standard of "give it Social Stigma: looks like a walking tank" isn't horrible.
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Old 08-24-2020, 01:21 AM   #115
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default

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While I don't consider having concealed power useless, it's fair to say that it isn't very well correlated with the point cost of the advantage, so the GURPS standard of "give it Social Stigma: looks like a walking tank" isn't horrible.
I'm not sure that the value isn't about as well correlated to the cost of the advantage as anything is.

Personally, I'm particularly negative on the Social Stigma angle because I do not tend to assume that such characters will in fact be stigmatized. I am much more inclined to a setting where you can be a dragon bigger than a bus and best attacked with anti-tank weapons, and also be a fully respectable member of society
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Old 08-24-2020, 08:21 AM   #116
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default

H68 is interesting for 2DR (Tough Skin) "thick, almost rubbery, white skin," and H84 Serpent Folk have the same,

Something like "your skin is thick" might only be discernable by touch though. Or maybe it is visible like scales?

H88 also which I referenced earlier for anyone curious:
Appearance (Monstrous; Accessibility, Only when ablative DR is reduced by half, -40%) [-12];
They don't have any low/no sig enhancements on the DR and presumably can pass for human so long as ablative DR is kept up.

Since the hardened DR is presumably underneath the ablative DR, this would mean they're pretty easy to uncover with damage (unless wearing armor) and since they're unhealing would need repairs to recover lost ablative DR.

The advantage to having ablative on top of non-ablative is it protects the non-ablative from Corrosion Attack loss, I guess?

I'm wondering if we could do something the other way around too, like if DR made you beautiful but you were ugly underneath, you might have an appearance advantage which only worked at above 50% DR ?

There's no mention of metal detectors being able or unable to detect their endoskeleton, so I'm not sure how you'd rule on that. I don't even know what trait would represent 'made of metal, airports and magnets will cause you problems' tbh

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Ultratech has subdermal armor which is invisible to the naked eye and metal detectors at no extra cost.
However like active abilities in Powers, it is detectable to at least ONE mundane sense:

UT211: "A careful tactile examination, a diagnostic bed, or a medscanner can detect the armor,"

On an unrelated note: Smart Tattoos right below that is pretty interesting... Distinctive Features is usually a quirk disadvantage, but Switchable -10% as a mitigator reduces it to -0.9 which rounds up to zero...

Except... based on PU2, shouldn't a "Controllable Disadvantage" like this actually be a Perk?
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Old 08-24-2020, 09:48 AM   #117
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post

However like active abilities in Powers, it is detectable to at least ONE mundane sense:

UT211: "A careful tactile examination, a diagnostic bed, or a medscanner can detect the armor,"

On an unrelated note: Smart Tattoos right below that is pretty interesting... Distinctive Features is usually a quirk disadvantage, but Switchable -10% as a mitigator reduces it to -0.9 which rounds up to zero...

Except... based on PU2, shouldn't a "Controllable Disadvantage" like this actually be a Perk?
Yes but PU2 was written years later. As for something that is only "visible" to a thorough groping or ultratechnology, that's not very visible. Note that the next tech level up has bioplastic skin that is even harder to detect.
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