Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Anthony

There are plenty where there isn't as much heavy lifting in either.

You can make GURPS work for supers, but you need to really bring out your tools to force it into shape, because by default it doesn't want to. A system like Champions or Mutants and Masterminds has similar flexibility to GURPS but has default scaling that works for supers (as a consequence, they don't work for other genres as well).

You're comparing a multi-tool to a pipe wrench when you need to deal with a pipe. Of course the pipe wrench is better for the job. It's custom made for it. But the multi-tool can still work just fine too.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You can make GURPS work for supers, but you need to really bring out your tools to force it into shape, because by default it doesn't want to. A system like Champions or Mutants and Masterminds has similar flexibility to GURPS but has default scaling that works for supers (as a consequence, they don't work for other genres as well).

One problem with statements like this is that it talks about Supers as a single genre or power level.

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

Yes, you can do it all using GURPS as well, but it takes more work from the GM. The GM needs to select which optional rules are used, curate (or help build) player powers, flesh out organizations (both friendly and hostile) and figure out stats and abilities of super NPCs. Some GMs like doing that work, others want to spend that time fleshing out the various plots of campaign.

Yeah, I don't totally agree with your either this or that framing but many GMs do appreciate a prepared setting over making their own.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

But tossing out "It just takes curating," with the subtext of "... if you're not too lazy or clueless to bother," is all very well and good. Thing is, there are plenty of folks out there who don't want to do that much heavy lifting, and there are a number of supers systems out there than don't compel them to do so.

But the objection isn't "GURPS takes more work than those other systems" or "GURPS fails to do the heavy lifting for me." The objection is "GURPS doesn't do supers well."

GURPS generally takes more up-front work than most other games. That's what is meant by "curation." You have to trim it and configure it and decide what you want it to do. This takes more work for a system that could do anything than for a system that was specifically built to handle your genre or something close to it. Supers just happens to be a genre that is extremely varied, requiring that much more work from the GM.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

But the objection isn't "GURPS takes more work than those other systems" or "GURPS fails to do the heavy lifting for me." The objection is "GURPS doesn't do supers well."

GURPS generally takes more up-front work than most other games. That's what is meant by "curation." You have to trim it and configure it and decide what you want it to do. This takes more work for a system that could do anything than for a system that was specifically built to handle your genre or something close to it. Supers just happens to be a genre that is extremely varied, requiring that much more work from the GM.

And Gandalf here knocks it out of the park. "Supers" is as varied a term as "Science Fiction" It's....a lot of stuff under that umbrella. So you need to decide what flavor from the ice cream shop you want when doing a supers campaign.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Refplace

One problem with statements like this is that it talks about Supers as a single genre or power level.



Yeah, I don't totally agree with your either this or that framing but many GMs do appreciate a prepared setting over making their own.

Yup. This. So much this.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You can make GURPS work for supers, but you need to really bring out your tools to force it into shape,

There are some alternatives to that such as throwing out points costs. People think they can't buy plain ST for their Brick because it takes too many cp. If the cp costs aren't working for the game the GM can throw them out rather than going through systems gymnastics.

Build to effects levels or goals rather than points costs. Who really cares if ST 300 costs 3000 pts? What matters is if it ends up balanced against the Blaster. By the way you also got 300 HP with that ST and have significantly less need to do systems gymnastics to keep him from being an egg armed with a hammer.

[Anthony]

GURPS can be used to run supers, and it will function, but there are some pretty drastic changes you need to make. Most notably, you need to completely rescale the damage/DR of all high tech weapons, vehicles, and armor, because the gap between "can be hurt by X" and "will be killed by X" is very very large in supers, and the effectiveness of fists and melee weapons is very high relative to the effectiveness of firearms.

I would note that this is actually a problem with GURPS and all cinematic genres, not just Supers.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Build to effects levels or goals rather than points costs. Who really cares if ST 300 costs 3000 pts? What matters is if it ends up balanced against the Blaster. By the way you also got 300 HP with that ST and have significantly less need to do systems gymnastics to keep him from being an egg armed with a hammer.

While I agree, sometimes half the fun is squeezing a concept out of a point-budget. I think it's possible some people like doing this so much they forget they could ignore the points.......and possibly they'd still be disappointed once it's pointed out to them.

[Mr_Sandman]

I've run a few campaigns of supers in GURPS, and I've found it can handle people with superpowers well. By default though, it plays like 'people with powers' in a more realistic world (for example the tv show Alphas), or maybe a deconstruction of comic book tropes.

It takes a bit of work to run a conventional comic book supers setting, with the tropes and logic you often see at work in mainline DC or Marvel settings. The GM has to be deliberate about how powers are crafted, limits on maximum damage and DR, and use of advantages like luck, hard to kill, etc., I found the advice in GURPS Supers, particularly on limiting the scale of damage from powers or swing damage and DR, is very helpful.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Build to effects levels or goals rather than points costs. Who really cares if ST 300 costs 3000 pts?

That's something you can tell to reasonably experienced GMs with mature players, who understand that everyone will get a chance to shine, despite apparent imbalances in power levels.

For a less experienced GM, point totals are a good way to make it seem like people are in the same ballpark. It's the same for players that aren't mature enough to ignore level/point differences in favour of storytelling. And we're kidding ourselves if we start to claim that those two types aren't a common combination.