Battletech to Gurps

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Lots of things could stop them from being one-shotted by HEAT, t.

Whatever you say but I do wish you'd name them.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Whatever you say but I do wish you'd name them.

High DR values. Damage reduction or scale-based damage limitation, which you almost certainly need in any case to stop mechs from being one-shotted by anything once their armor fails.


Hardened (only vs HEAT) is pretty likely. My point wasn't to say that Hardened can't be near Battlemech armor, but that that that is not the most important thing about armor in a game that is about ablating armor.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Hardened (only vs HEAT) is pretty likely. My point wasn't to say that Hardened can't be near Battlemech armor, but that that that is not the most important thing about armor in a game that is about ablating armor.

That is part of the game mechanics of another game system. You might as well do Dungeon Fantasy by giving everyone dozens of Hit Points. D&D game mechanics about ablating hp too.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

That is part of the game mechanics of another game system. You might as well do Dungeon Fantasy by giving everyone dozens of Hit Points. D&D game mechanics about ablating hp too.

Dungeon Fantasy isn't GURPS Dungeons and Dragons. If it was, yes, it should do that. Probably. Dungeons and Dragons has always waffled between being a setting and not being a setting and between mechanics being diagetic or not.

On the other hand, Battletech is extremely clear that armor damage is diagetic. Battletech, but armor works like real armor instead of Battletech armor is not remotely Battletech.

Battletech, but we just use a GURPS UT stat that vaguely sounds like it should be the thing fits with a popular strain of 'how do I do this in GURPS' answer, and one that I will always challenge. Because it's bad, and it makes GURPS look like it's no good at handling settings.

GURPS doesn't say that a PPC should be statted as a TL10 blaster. GURPS says you can stat a PPC however you need to stat it for your game. Don't throw away that power. (Especially not in UT where the selection of technologies is rather idiosyncratic and sometimes just not great.)

[Rolando]

As some say above, you may keep using all the battletech rules for mech combat and design and use GURPS for all player rolls, inlcudding mech rolls.

The IP owner does that for Mechwarrior (the battletech RPG) after all.

If a mech weapon hits a character the character is dead... you may make a 6d6x5 roll per point of damage of the weapon or some such, though, in case you want to mix battletech and supers in the future, but according to battletech a point of damage kills a soldier, or at least take them out of the fight.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

D
Battletech, but we just use a GURPS UT stat that vaguely sounds like it should be the thing fits with a popular strain of 'how do I do this in GURPS' answer, and one that I will always challenge. Because it's bad, and it makes GURPS look like it's no good at handling settings.

.)

"BattleTech" technically isn't a "setting". It's a game system. It's use to mean "The Inner Sphere" or "The 3025 era" is shorthand but it isn't an ironclad and irrevocable endorsement of a set of game mechanics.

You also seem to be trying to tell the OP that he can't run a "BattlerTech" game that doesn't focus on "Mech combat. He _has_ to focus on "Mech combat.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

"BattleTech" technically isn't a "setting". It's a game system. It's use to mean "The Inner Sphere" or "The 3025 era" is shorthand but it isn't an ironclad and irrevocable endorsement of a set of game mechanics.

Battletech is a setting. It has multiple eras and multiple regions, but that's not unknown in settings. I mean, you might as well say Middle Earth is not a setting.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

You also seem to be trying to tell the OP that he can't run a "BattlerTech" game that doesn't focus on "Mech combat. He _has_ to focus on "Mech combat.

Weird thing to make up, considering this entire sub-thread is in response to you making a lengthy post about mech mechanics.

Also, battletech standard armor is also found on vehicles, which I believe the OP did express intent to use.

[Mark Skarr]

TL;DR: Converting is hard. BattleTech is easy.

----

If you really felt the need, you would want to convert BattleTech into GURPS, not try to find something in GURPS that might work. One of the first things to keep in mind is that BattleTech has some specific setting switches.

BattleTech setting switches:

• 'Mechs are superior to other weapon platforms.
• All armor is Semi-Ablative (that should help reflect the random damage allocation from BattleTech).
• Personal lasers are superior to ballistics (look at any of the RPG books--shy of AToW--and you'll see that lasers are superior weapons).
• Personal needlers are a legitimate weapon.
• Gyrojet weapons are really scary.
• Weapon ranges are severely retarded compared to realistic ranges.
• Armor Divisors don't exist.
• Violence should be the primary conflict resolution--diplomacy is only used to get better pieces in position.
• Capellans are why we can't have anything nice.
• It's always ComStar.

So, let's build a PPC:

It does 10 points of BattleTech damage, 10.5 is the average for 3d6, so, if we make it 6dx50 that averages 1,050 damage. Accuracy for most 'Mech weapons would be 4, as you get a +4 to hit an immobilized 'Mech. Range, we'll call the ½D range equal to it's maximum, effective range, so 540 yards (because I don't care the difference between a yard and a meter, for the game, they're interchangeable). We'll double it for max, for it's extended range: 1,080. Very short ranged for modern weapons, but, that's one of the switches for BattleTech. Weight is easy, it's seven tons--14,000 lbs. RoF, we'll call it one per 10 turns. As the PPC only gets to fire once a turn. Shots are functionally infinite. Bulk, well, -10 seems to be the maximum so, we'll go with that. Rcl 1 because it's functionally recoilless. Cost is also easy, it's 200,000 c-bills, which is a 1:5 for dollars. So, $1,000,000. Legality Class is 1. It's not 0, as it's not a WMD (which do exist in BattleTech).

Weapon     Damage    ACC    Range   Weight  RoF   Shots  Bulk  Rcl     Cost     LC
PPC      6dx50 burn   4   540/1080  14,000  1/10   inf.   -10   1   $1,000,000   1

So, with that, we know that a MAD-3R Marauder, a 75-ton heavy 'Mech carries 11.5 tons of Valiant Lamellor armor. It's Center Torso carries 35 points of armor, and has 23 points of internal structure. To kill the 'Mech, the Center Torso internal structure has to be reduced to 0. (We're not worried about head kills right now). So, that's six hits from the PPC. The first three hits won't do internal damage. But you're also not likely to get six, consecutive hits on a 'Mech's Center Torso. So, let's say it should take 50% more hits, let's say 9 hits from a PPC to take out a Marauder.

Knowing the average damage is 1,050 from the PPC, and knowing that our armor is Semi-Ablative (so each hit will reduce the DR by 105 points), we want five hits to finally reduce the DR below 1,000. That's easy, we'll give it a DR of 1,500, and the 5th hit will reduce the DR to 975.

But, let's step back and take something else from BattleTech. The 11.5 tons of armor gives the 'Mech 184 points of armor. Let's just multiply that by 10, and give the Marauder a DR of 1,840. That means, it's an average of 8 hits to reduce the DR to 1,000, where it'll start taking internal damage.

We'll give the Marauder 375 HP. Because it's an easily calculated number: 5x tonnage, and a "hard kill" value of 1,875 points of damage (-5x HP). Conveniently, after 14 PPC hits, the Marauder will have taken exactly 1,875 points of damage. Most players can attest that any Marauder taking 14 PPC strikes will likely be dead.

Now, let's apply this information to a different 'Mech and see if it's silly or if it holds true. Let's go with one of my favorite 'Mechs, the fifty-five ton SHD-2H Shadow Hawk (three different types of ammo, because you want to be visible from orbit when they go off). She carries 9.5 tons of Maximillian 43 armor, which gives her 152 points of total armor. She'll have 5 x 55, 275 HP, and a "hard kill" value of 1,375 HP. After 10 hits, she'll have taken 1,325 damage, and her 11th hit (from a PPC) will kill her. And, having piloted numerous Shadow Hawks over the years, that feels about right.

So, we'll just say they have ST/HP equal, it's simple for right now. Their Hnd/SR, we'll say that it's based on their 'Mech weight. They don't have a bonus for handling, (some might, but that's to taste for the GM/Campaign), and we'll say that their SR is equal to their class. 1 for Light, 2 for Medium, 3 for Heavy and 4 for Assault. HT seems to be fair to say is 13. 'Mechs are hard to kill and many, even with bad maintenance, are still around centuries after they were made. An argument could be made for a 14. Move is easy to convert. We'll say their acceleration is equal to their walking MP, and their maximum speed is posted in the TROs and easy enough to calculate. LWt. simple, it's their tonnage. Load is 0.2 for a pilot and passenger, hence Occ 1+1. DR was covered above. Sarna has their prices, we just multiply by 5 to get dollars. Loc is also easy. 'Mechs don't have glass windows and, even though it looks like it, they don't have exposed weapon mounts. Those can be changed, by the GM, for their game, but, we have:

Vehicle            ST/HP  Hnd/SR  HT  Move LWt. Load Occ.   DR    Cost   Loc.  Notes
MAD-3R Marauder     375     0/3   13  4/19  75  0.2  1+1  1,840  $33.2M  2A2L
SHD-2H Shadow Hawk  275     0/2   13  5/26  55  0.2  1+1  1,520  $22.7M  2A2L  Jump 90yd

Me, personally, I'd change the moves to 4/20 and 5/25, but I like easy-to-digest numbers.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Battletech is a setting. It has multiple eras and multiple regions, but that's not unknown in settings. I mean, you might as well say Middle Earth is not a setting.

.

"Middle earth" is a setting but by itself is not a game system. By itself "BattleTech" is a game system that originally had no setting much as "Traveller" (the LBBs) pre-dates the Third Imperium. BattleTech's settings came later than the basic rules.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

"Middle earth" is a setting but by itself is not a game system. By itself "BattleTech" is a game system that originally had no setting much as "Traveller" (the LBBs) pre-dates the Third Imperium. BattleTech's settings came later than the basic rules.

That's not true.
The rough background as well as the great houses were listed in BattleDroids, as were several of the notable units. Things changed a little bit between BattleDroids and BattleTech, and we didn't get the first, in-depth explanation of the world until MechWarrior 1st Edition, in '86.