Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-26-2022, 02:36 PM   #11
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Assuming a fairly high point-value game, which skills do we think are worth investing lots of points in?

Generally speaking, we see diminishing returns after the 12-14 range unless there are frequently large negative modifiers. So, I was trying to figure out what skills might be worth the extra juice to put skills up to 25 or 30 or higher.

Ritual Magic seems like the most obvious choice. If we're using that magic system, many spells have prerequisite count of 10 and getting skill to 20 has real benefits.

Weapon skills can also clearly benefit. In melee, there are options and there's your parry. In ranged combat, there's range.

So, what else is worth having a skill of 25+‽
Any skill that can act as a cap on your combat skills, assuming it'll see use. Thus Freefall and the various Environment Suit skills, Riding, and Driving are all likely to be useful at the same level as your primary combat skill(s).

It's somewhat embarrassing finding your hyper-lethal assassin now has an effective skill with their weapons of maybe 12 because the other side cut the gravity.

And then there are the skill used for inventions. Unless the character is a gadgeteer (and not all campaigns will allow those advantages) they'll probably be working with huge penalties, so massive skill levels will be really useful - you really, really want your chance of success to be higher than your chance of a critical failure, at an absolute minimum.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2022, 02:39 PM   #12
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
If it's not super expensive, Diplomacy is worth getting to 20 for the automatic +2 to any reaction roll.
But if that's all you want it for, +2 Charisma is likely to be much cheaper. However, Diplomacy is a hugely useful influence skill - you can use it in almost any situation where influence can be used at all, and it's rather safer than other influence skills. If you have the points to counter it being harder than the others it's absolutely worth the investment, even without that 'free' +2 to reactions.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2022, 02:42 PM   #13
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
What about taking less time? Lockpicking usually takes 1 minute. I don't remember where rules for taking less time are off the top of my head, but it seems like this is the sort of thing where deliberate penalties would come in to play. Same with computer hacking while the bad guys are approaching or tactics or... whatnot.
Lockpicking is odd - it has its own time reduction rules - for every point of success it takes 5s off the base one minute time. As the general rule is -1 per 10% time reduction, Lockpicking gives slightly less effect but without the need to gamble your success chance.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2022, 04:59 PM   #14
edk926
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

If you are using the low-tech crafting perks, Armoury and Smith would be well worth boosting really high.
edk926 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2022, 05:28 PM   #15
Donny Brook
 
Donny Brook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
If it's not super expensive, Diplomacy is worth getting to 20 for the automatic +2 to any reaction roll.
I have hated that ridiculous rule since forever. It's banned in my games and most of my group does as well.
Donny Brook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2022, 01:58 AM   #16
Eric Funk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Earth
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Assuming a fairly high point-value game, which skills do we think are worth investing lots of points in?

Generally speaking, we see diminishing returns after the 12-14 range unless there are frequently large negative modifiers. So, I was trying to figure out what skills might be worth the extra juice to put skills up to 25 or 30 or higher.

Ritual Magic seems like the most obvious choice. If we're using that magic system, many spells have prerequisite count of 10 and getting skill to 20 has real benefits.

Weapon skills can also clearly benefit. In melee, there are options and there's your parry. In ranged combat, there's range.

So, what else is worth having a skill of 25+‽
Greetings!

Firstly I will suggest the optimum minimum is 16. It makes 6 or less (~10%)a critical success while a 17 a normal failure. The former for regular magic means no energy cost... (p.M7). It is also the limit for RuleOf16 for resistances (p.349). From a player point of view any roll the GM makes in secret might also be a good candidate (such as Search skill) to increase to 16+...

I will suggest that even 40 or so for weapon skills is not enough due to penalties. Consider against a smallish (SM-1) foe a warrior employs a Deceptive Attack (-14 to skill for -7 to foe defense) with targeting eye/chinks/etc (-9) for penalties of -24 to skill! (Keeping the target roll at 16+ to maximise critical success)... That is not counting penalties for rapid strikes, close combat, footing, being on fire, etc...


Vs. Contested skills I agree. My party's wizard managed to reverse pickpocket an armed grenade info a foe's pocket while said foe was distracted by an angry dwarf in heavy armour...


Acrobatics for Acrobatic Dodges as well as for Roll With Blow (MA87).

Lockpicking also note that lock difficulty can go from +5 to -10, so skill25 for an entry specialist would not be out of the ordinary.... (DF:Exploits82). Traps, Veterinary often have high penalties as well.

Merchant at 20+ doubly helps for its +2 to reaction rolls as well being a contest with the vendor.

In general most discovery/observation skills (and Information Spells) the greater your degree of success the more the GM will tell you what you learn so having skill 20+ you are more likely to have "success by 10+". (I was just reading some modules and NPCs being willing to divulge details fits here too)

You might also look at non-combat Techniques which could be worth buying up for specific uses such as "Set Trap" (B223) or in Martial Arts such as Quick Mount (MA78) or Acrobatic Stand (MA65).
__________________
-
"Knowledge Brings Fear" -- Motto of Mars University, Futurama
Eric Funk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2022, 08:02 AM   #17
khorboth
 
khorboth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Funk View Post
Firstly I will suggest the optimum minimum is 16.....

I will suggest that even 40...
You are clearly playing much higher point-value games than me. I have never seen a skill hit 40, and precious few in the 30s.

For characters without superpowers, 500 points is really high in my group. And 250-350 is much more common.

But it sounds like you're having fun. Don't let me put a damper on it.
khorboth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2022, 08:20 AM   #18
RGTraynor
 
RGTraynor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pioneer Valley
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
You are clearly playing much higher point-value games than me. I have never seen a skill hit 40, and precious few in the 30s. For characters without superpowers, 500 points is really high in my group. And 250-350 is much more common.
Yeah, I'm having flashbacks to hearing D&Ders in gaming clubs boasting about how pitilessly unstoppable their characters were, in the "Yeah! We went to Hell, and we TRASHED it! We turned all the devils into our BITCHES, and then we killed SATAN and took his STUFF!" camp.

The concept of Skill-40 being "not enough" for just about anything short of "Let's see if I can hit that mountaintop there on the horizon with an arrow" boggles my mind.
__________________
My gaming blog: Apotheosis of the Invisible City

"Call me old-fashioned, but after you're dead, I don't think you should be entitled to a Dodge any more." - my wife

It's not that I don't understand what you're saying. It's that I disagree with what you're saying.
RGTraynor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2022, 08:52 AM   #19
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

A skill of 12 is a good chance of success, 14 excellent, and 16 nearly perfect. Anything beyond that is either to soak up penalties, increase margin of success (including contests), or reach a threshold (like spell energy/time reduction, or Diplomacy's 20+ bonus).

Edit: Out of curiosity, I looked back through my files and one of my old characters that I have saved had two skills at 18. None of the others had even a single skill higher than 17.
__________________
RyanW
- Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats.

Last edited by RyanW; 03-30-2022 at 09:08 AM.
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2022, 09:41 AM   #20
Eric Funk
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Earth
Default Re: Which skills are worh raising really high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
You are clearly playing much higher point-value games than me. I have never seen a skill hit 40, and precious few in the 30s.

For characters without superpowers, 500 points is really high in my group. And 250-350 is much more common.

But it sounds like you're having fun. Don't let me put a damper on it.
Well,
[20] Guns DX+5
[1] Weapon Bond +1

Weapon Balanced +1
Hand-matched Ammo +2 Acc, Fine Ammo (acc)+1

Aim+2
Scope+3
very Fine Weapon Acc +7

= 32 effective skill...

Add magic such as Accuracy (+2 on ammo is available for only 100$/bullet) you can get to effective skill 38...



I admit for melee it is less easy, but for specific techniques high levels are still achievable:


[6] Disarming Technique at StafF+5 (MA70)
[0] Small racial template SM-1 (no cp cost). Foe is SM+3 giant : +4 to hit.
[16] Staff @DX+5
[1] Weapon Bond +1
[1] Shield skill --> rimmed shield gives +1 to disarm attempts (LowtechCompanion2)

Balanced +1
Sodegarami/Sasumata hook staff (MA229) (no -2 to disarming as it is done by its hook)

Evaluate +2

=skill 29

Then add a magical weapon...
__________________
-
"Knowledge Brings Fear" -- Motto of Mars University, Futurama
Eric Funk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
skills

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.