The GURPS Meta-Tech Hype Thread

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

The means to make it are TL0. Just like all gear, Bill, there is a minimum level at which a given thing is invented and thus that level is usually required to make it again. This one is TL 0 and thus can be created at any TL from 0 all the way up to 12+. It is in no way a reference to anything else. I could have just called it "Healing Paste" I suppose, but I like to add more diversity and representation when I do things.

Yes, I get that. But your diversity comes from a historical falsification: from treating all Africans and even black slaves in the Americas as if they were technologically and socially at the level of Bushmen or Pygmies. As opposed, perhaps, to having it be named for a figure from First Nations or Polynesian legends, those being cultures that really were at TL0 (with "advanced in Navigation" for the latter).

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Yes, I get that. But your diversity comes from a historical falsification: from treating all Africans and even black slaves in the Americas as if they were technologically and socially at the level of Bushmen or Pygmies. As opposed, perhaps, to having it be named for a figure from First Nations or Polynesian legends, those being cultures that really were at TL0 (with "advanced in Navigation" for the latter).

Bill, did I assert at ALL that Africans were somehow less or inferior? I simply said that a magical herbal remedy could be made with the knowledge of TL0. That knowledge carries on to TL1...and TL2...and TL3...and so on. You're reading into something that isn't there.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by whswhs

And yet the cost calculation is really trivial. You multiply the point value by a factor determined by the SM, in a table that takes up half a page; optionally, you adjust for ubiquity, a rule that takes up about a third of a page; and then you apply cost modifiers, which take up about a page. That's only two pages out of the 32 of the main text. It seems as if you and Christopher are saying that the other 30 pages are useless, or at least are useless without that final step. And yet the whole process leads up to a penultimate step where you figure a point cost.

So suppose I've derived a point cost. How would that figure into a campaign I was running, if I didn't assume that meta-tech had cash prices? Or wouldn't it?

I mean, the cost calculation being trivial is a good thing - it makes the system quick and easy to use (at least once you've built the ability itself, which is the complex part - but that's no different from building any ability in GURPS). In a setting where MTD's don't have cash prices, you could still use the derived cash price as a guideline for inventing (most rules for which rely on the nominal value of the item being made IIRC), crafting (price is materials+labor), and repairing (replacement parts are generally a percentage of full value IIRC) such items, using the relevant rules from Basic Set, After the End, etc. If you have absolutely no use for a nominal cash value - if you aren't going to allow characters to do any of the above in play, but rather just require them to purchase the abilities as Gadgets - then the process of turning an Advantage into an MTD won't be of any use to you, and you can largely ignore those parts of the book. Or you could modify the guidelines to create a variant of the Gadget rules with more nuance, with the CF modifiers turning into Limitations on the relevant Advantages - or the Metatrait as a whole - and using the size-based base costs to set what Limitation value is associated with various SM's. Some other guidelines could also be of use, like Attachables if your character has a priceless magic gem they can attach to mundane gear to enhance it. Even if you aren't using that, things like having a Payload with built-in Temporal Stasis (or having two characters with shared Payloads, like the Hither-Thither Trunks) or any of the other modifiers introduced in Meta-Tech can be useful.

[cupbearer]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

As you folks know I wrote a supplement called "GURPS Meta-Tech" it's the direct descendent of "Metatronic Generators" from Pyramid #3/46: Weird Science. Metatronic Generators was essentially a way to take a GURPS powers build and turn it into gear with a cash cost, weight, etc. Basically, it ignores the gadget modifiers in the Basic Set and then "gadgetizes" the build using its own rules.

GURPS Meta-Tech takes everything I've learned almost 12 years, used in my own campaigns, etc. and distills it into a simple system. It includes the article "More Options for Metatronic Generators" from Pyramid #4/3: Sci-Fi/Tech and a ton of stuff I'd set aside for Pyramid publication that never came to pass.

But wait! There's more. It also adds two new parts of the design process: Origins and Modifiers.

Origins are basically like a Power Modifier, but for meta-tech devices. With origins you can turn a superscience meta-tech device (the default assumption for the supplement) into...a magic item. Or Progenitor tech. Or bio-organic tech. Or anything.

And did I mention the new modifiers for traits? These modifiers actually change how the meta-tech interacts with the wielder using the CF notation we're all used to now.

And did I mention the examples, there are thirteen of them (one for each TL) with different origins to boot. Excalibur is in there...

And if you order now you get: pages and pages of how-to advice on builds, new enhancements and limitations, and so much more!

With GURPS Meta-Tech you can build anything from magic swords to cthulhutech (what's this you ask? It's something new...) battlesuits and everything in between. And guess what? It's a universal system. No more poking at multiple systems for supernatural powers, special gear, strange tech, etc. It's all a single system you can easily customize for you games.

This is some of my finest work so far and the process to write it was grueling as I redid many of the mechanics to make it work better. Also, this was probably one of the best playtests I've ever been in. The playtesters asked really hard questions and they did not let me do less than my best when I revised. I had to kill a lot of my darlings this time around, but the book is just so much better for it.

So get hyped. Get ready. Ask questions. If I can tell you I will. And remember on June 27th to buy your copy of GURPS Meta-Tech. The Powers That Be are watching to see what sales are like. And if you want more books like it or more from me...well. You know what to do. :-)

Great job. The book is amazing. Already statting out holy relics for a fantasy campaign Im running

(One nit pick which isn’t your fault but Wish that pdf and physical copy were discounted as a bundle though).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I mean, the cost calculation being trivial is a good thing - it makes the system quick and easy to use (at least once you've built the ability itself, which is the complex part - but that's no different from building any ability in GURPS). In a setting where MTD's don't have cash prices, you could still use the derived cash price as a guideline for inventing (most rules for which rely on the nominal value of the item being made IIRC), crafting (price is materials+labor), and repairing (replacement parts are generally a percentage of full value IIRC) such items, using the relevant rules from Basic Set, After the End, etc. If you have absolutely no use for a nominal cash value - if you aren't going to allow characters to do any of the above in play, but rather just require them to purchase the abilities as Gadgets - then the process of turning an Advantage into an MTD won't be of any use to you, and you can largely ignore those parts of the book. Or you could modify the guidelines to create a variant of the Gadget rules with more nuance, with the CF modifiers turning into Limitations on the relevant Advantages - or the Metatrait as a whole - and using the size-based base costs to set what Limitation value is associated with various SM's. Some other guidelines could also be of use, like Attachables if your character has a priceless magic gem they can attach to mundane gear to enhance it. Even if you aren't using that, things like having a Payload with built-in Temporal Stasis (or having two characters with shared Payloads, like the Hither-Thither Trunks) or any of the other modifiers introduced in Meta-Tech can be useful.

Yeah, that's more the sort of thing that I was looking for. On the other hand, though artifacts are going to figure into my current project, I don't think I could summarize the meta-tech rules there, and I hesitate to provide a section on how to modify a design system that would have to be looked at in a whole nother book. I think maybe I'll stick with the existing Gadget rules. Though maybe a mention of Meta-Tech as an optional supplement could be in order.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by cupbearer

Great job. The book is amazing. Already statting out holy relics for a fantasy campaign Im running

Thanks! Glad it's working out for you.

Originally Posted by cupbearer

(One nit pick which isn’t your fault but Wish that pdf and physical copy were discounted as a bundle though).

I can't control that and SJGames stance is pretty firm on that regard.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Just as a small note, I want to say that I don't think the Lens of the Galactic Patrol is properly classed as "superscience."

In the setting I think it classifies as superscience, though I believe they were made with the mind not in some factory. So calling it "magic" is ok too.
There are some good build ideas and new modifiers. Also if I recall correctly a way to build power amplifiers like a lens. I would think you would still get some use out of it, though it is certainly not aimed at the specific campaigns you prefer to run.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by Farmer

The entirety of the book is still useful even if you don't care about the price.

Use it to build items and to have a relative scale of "cost" (being GURPS $ but that doesn't matter). You're not building to a price, the price is reflective of the *value* comparatively.

So build it, use all the rules to do so, and then ignore the price if it doesn't need one for your usage. There are numerous origins, traits, processes, and more that help you build the items in a cohesive way.

This is true. Granted, the book doesn't give much to work with if your goal is to set a point cost for an item; though even there, Chapter Three: Character Traits will be of some use.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I think maybe I'll stick with the existing Gadget rules. Though maybe a mention of Meta-Tech as an optional supplement could be in order.

Mention and reference to other relevant supplements is always good. the GURPS library is vast and not all things are obvious to the reader or easily searched for on W23.
I personally am still a bit annoyed that the Pyramid #4 series are not searchable by author, just as an example.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Refplace

In the setting I think it classifies as superscience, though I believe they were made with the mind not in some factory. So calling it "magic" is ok too.

I think I would call it a psionic device, both because its important functions include greatly amplifying the wearers' psionic abilities and because it seems to be created by an exercise of psionic abilities (we see one Kinnison's daughters creating Lenses for themselves, not using any sort of scientific apparatus [or chanting spells!] but by a direct act of will). "[M]ade with the mind not in some factory," as you put it, seems to be a good fit to this interpretation.