Hitting Targets of Opportunity in Combat

[Lord Azagthoth]

I once attended a LRP event in the UK (spin off from the Gathering). In a contest, I kept losing because the opponents kept touching my foot very softly with the tip of their weapon (I couldn't even feel it but the judges saw it).

In the Netherlands, you have to make full movement for a hit to count.

In my houserules I am converting Reach and Step to smaller segements. No more Reach/Step 1 for every creature. Still figuring out if adjusting Reach for angled attacks is doable.

[VariousRen]

To give us some actual material to discuss I'll post this: a HEMA duel between two instructors using sabers. It's complete with some slow motion sections and highlighting where hits land to help figure out what's happening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19hR04Ckb8

It isn't a scored duel, but each bout is fought until a hit, and trade hits are noted. In GURPS terms both of them need a successful attack roll, then a failed parry or dodge.

There are plenty of torso hits through the video, but a large number of blows land outside of the GURPS torso. It seems unlikely that either party would bother taking penalties to attack for a specific hit location, and if they were rolling randomly for each attack it would be just as easy to hit the torso each time. Instead, many attacks made to the arms, legs, or head were blows that were partial deflections from the torso or swings at something that was out of position.

Some examples:
1:40 - A failed dodge backwards results in a solid arm blow to the weapon arm.
1:55 - A successful dodge is followed up by a blow to the face, which is still thrust forward.
2:39 - A swing connects with the upper torso, without protective gear I would call that a neck hit.
3:16 - The defenders leg is left forward, and an easy blow is struck against it while the torso is defended.
7:03 - A quick cut catches the defender on the back of the wrist, a right hand hit.

There are plenty of other incidental hits, but some of them lack enough power for me to consider them full strikes.

While Kromm's post is interesting, I think it adds one dice roll too many and introduces too many small bonuses with decisions attached that would slow down play. Instead, by giving a +1 bonus while taking a random hit location on purpose, you are looking for openings and dedicating yourself to exploiting them. You don't have time to reconsider if the opening is poor (a hit to an already crippled limb, or heavily armoured shield arm), but you may get lucky and score a hit against an otherwise difficult target such as the face.

[Calvin]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Maybe. One does note that the shins were always armored in ancient times, though, even when more vulnerable areas were protected (though usually behind a big-ash shield.

10/10 on word play but I've got to deduct a point for the missing right parentheses.

Originally Posted by VariousRen

While Kromm's post is interesting, I think it adds one dice roll too many and introduces too many small bonuses with decisions attached that would slow down play. Instead, by giving a +1 bonus while taking a random hit location on purpose, you are looking for openings and dedicating yourself to exploiting them. You don't have time to reconsider if the opening is poor (a hit to an already crippled limb, or heavily armoured shield arm), but you may get lucky and score a hit against an otherwise difficult target such as the face.

I'll probably take a crack at implementing the Kromm post with a macro, but the flat +1 is probably the easiest option for games not on a VTT.

One thing to consider though is that it does change what melee skill levels can do. Getting that +1 pretty much all the time makes a big difference, especially if the skill level is low. Someone rolling at default or at a 10 suddenly has a much better chance of hitting. Without needing to take All Out Attacks, Aims, etc.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Calvin

10/10 on word play but I've got to deduct a point for the missing right parentheses.

Could be worse. My mother, disguised as the East German judge, tried to wash my mouth out with soap.

I'll probably take a crack at implementing the Kromm post with a macro, but the flat +1 is probably the easiest option for games not on a VTT.

Christian Blouin has done this already - let me see if I can find it.

https://serendipity-engine.appspot.com/

[GodBeastX]

I never understood why torso targeting is a 0 modifier.

Look at SM table. Do people have a Torso around 6 feet?

A torso should be -1 or -2 as well to target directly. Otherwise it SHOULD be a random hit location since the entire body is the 0 modifier, not just the torso. Otherwise the SM table is off.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by mhd

Never mind that the faster counterattack in a swing to the shin is often a thrust, and you're simply not allowed to do that in most LARPs.

In the one I occasionally do hits to hands or wrists also don't count, so that's another solid counter neutralized.

As regarding to armor, any thread about leg attacks always cites the numerous leg injuries in Visby

Most of the wounds at visby were probably from battlefield weapons like spears and polearms. Sidearms probably did include arming swords, but many of the wounds seem to be from the impact heads of maces and hammers. Getting hit in the leg with a pollaxe or halberd is a whole other situation.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

I never understood why torso targeting is a 0 modifier.

Look at SM table. Do people have a Torso around 6 feet?

A torso should be -1 or -2 as well to target directly. Otherwise it SHOULD be a random hit location since the entire body is the 0 modifier, not just the torso. Otherwise the SM table is off.

Because aiming at center of mass is the default attack with many weapons and GURPS tries to avoid modifiers on the core use of a skill.

[Kalzazz]

Thrusts are allowed but my favorite shot isn't a thrust . . . and it has a fair amount of velocity behind it, so people could usually feel it

The counter is quite simple, just drop your sword down on the shoulder before the swing connects, or dodge back and strike before the person recovers

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Thrusts are allowed but my favorite shot isn't a thrust . . . and it has a fair amount of velocity behind it, so people could usually feel it

Even if your LARP allows you to hit as hard as you would with a real weapon, in a real fight, and most don't, a one-handed slash to the shin is pretty unlikely to do much, there's little there to injure and low cuts lack the mechanical advantage of cuts in the midline (at least without significantly exposing yourself by dropping your center of gravity).

Since LARPs count all touches equally (as long as they fit some broad parameters in how the rules define attacks) there's actually no incentive to hit hard, and since most LARPers complain when you do, there's a huge incentive not to, IME.

The counter is quite simple, just drop your sword down on the shoulder before the swing connects, or dodge back and strike before the person recovers

LARP boffers recover very quickly, because they are usually permitted to balance the hilt with weights but not have anything denser than foam and fiberglass in the blade. The difference between them and even well balanced steel is significant.

[Agent]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

I never understood why torso targeting is a 0 modifier.

Look at SM table. Do people have a Torso around 6 feet?

A torso should be -1 or -2 as well to target directly. Otherwise it SHOULD be a random hit location since the entire body is the 0 modifier, not just the torso. Otherwise the SM table is off.

And with Low-Tech's separation of the abdomen, the -0 is basically just the chest area, 9-10.

Making that -1 and the random roll the only -0 (and perhaps the abdomen -2, dunno) seems reasonable.