Modern Firearms

[tikitang]

Hi there,

I was happy to discover that rules exist for modern(ish) firearms, as found here:

https://thefantasytrip.game/news/201...heroes-in-tft/

These have been around for decades, of course -- I was literally one month old when these were first published -- but I only found them a few weeks ago.

I was hoping somebody else might have run a game or two with them?

There is some reference in these rules to reloading the firearms, and although not explicitly stated, I assume this action would count as a 'readying' action in the Disengaged Options list.

However, unlike some of the black powder firearms from the main rulebook, which tell you exactly how long it takes to reload (e.g. Arquebus = 12 turns), no mention is made of that for the modern firearms in the above rules (that I can see).

Has anyone had any experience using these rules, and if so, how did you handle reloading them?

[Steve Plambeck]

I'd think the number of turns to reload would vary a lot by the model, so you'd need a whole table. An automatic, you could eject the clip and slam in a new one in one turn. A revolver would take much longer, say maybe 5 turns for a six-shooter? A shot gun? A Winchester rifle? A bazooka? A phaser? It would take an expert to figure out the whole list.

[Steve Plambeck]

I'd think the number of turns to reload would vary a lot by the model, so you'd need a whole table. An automatic, you could eject the clip and slam in a new one in one turn. A revolver would take much longer, say maybe 5 turns for a six-shooter? A shot gun? A Winchester rifle? A bazooka? A phaser? It would take an expert to figure out the whole list.

[DouglasCole]

There’s a lot of reloading time data in the pages of GURPS High-Tech. You could look at that and convert into TFT turns.

Most magazine-fed weapons can probably be reloaded easily within the TFT five second turn. Some people with optimized gear can do it so fast it’s a free action.

For revolvers, it’s slower unless you use speed-loaders that allow a full cylinder change all at once. There are also tricks to fast-reload shotguns.

[tikitang]

Thank you both, that was most helpful.

I think I'll go for one turn to reload, as it does indeed appear that most of the weapons listed in the rules above can be reloaded in 5 seconds or less (in trained hands).

[Skarg]

You could say untrained people need to make a DX roll to successfully reload the weapon in one turn.

[larsdangly]

My feeling is that the level of abstraction in TFT means that any new rules, beyond those general to missile weapons, should be small in number and structurally simple. You really don't want to go full Aftermath/Cyborg-Commando with this stuff. Assign a damage, relationship between adj.DX and numbers of shots per turn, turns to fully reload, and you are there.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by tikitang

Hi there,

I was happy to discover that rules exist for modern(ish) firearms, as found here:

https://thefantasytrip.game/news/201...heroes-in-tft/

Has anyone had any experience using these rules, and if so, how did you handle reloading them?

I tried these when it came out, though in a modern rather than fantasy setting. My objections may not apply if you want to make modern weapons very powerful. There are a few things I didn't like.

First, the very high rate of fire, e.g., five shots for a revolver or semi-automatic weapon. Now, TFT has a 5-second turn, so that's reasonable or even conservative on the face of it: one shot per second. However, TFT is also abstract. It doesn't take five seconds to swing a sword, after all! (In GURPS an all-out attack lets you do two sword strikes a turn; you can fire 3 shots with a double action revolver). (TFT does make bows very rapid.)

So in the interests of compatibility, I'd also abstract down rate of fire go with a revolver or bolt action getting only two shots a turn (maybe an extra one with high DX), and perhaps the same (or rate of fire 3 for a SMG/semi-auto). When a utofired, a SMG getting 5d also probably overstates armor penetration; maybe it should get 5d but armor protects double when you burst fire, reflecting multiple hits being stopped separately... Or maybe not, as TFT has no hit location, and you're more likely to hit an unarmored spot.

The bolt action rifle understates armor penetration against plate etc. and compares unfavorably to the arquebus in that regard. Suggest keeping 3d, but medieval armor or cover protects at half value (round down).

I'd go with a one-turn ready action to reload anything except a revolver without a speed loader, and let that reload 2 bullets/turn.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

My feeling is that the level of abstraction in TFT means that any new rules, beyond those general to missile weapons, should be small in number and structurally simple. You really don't want to go full Aftermath/Cyborg-Commando with this stuff. Assign a damage, relationship between adj.DX and numbers of shots per turn, turns to fully reload, and you are there.

Mind you, never actually liked adjDX giving you extra shots with a bow - it seems silly a bow would be faster than a sword, regardless of your DX....

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

Mind you, never actually liked adjDX giving you extra shots with a bow - it seems silly a bow would be faster than a sword, regardless of your DX....

Note that the bow is only faster if nobody is in your face making life difficult.


There are a few multiple attacks in melee things like UC V, Two Weapons, Sweeping blows, etc.