09-19-2022, 05:36 PM | #11 | ||
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
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If we look at the real world history of abolitionism, it generally started in areas where slavery wasn't particularly economically important to start with, and even then was often pretty slow -- a very common model was to ban new slaves (slaves could not be imported, children of slaves would be born free and have the rights of citizens) while not freeing any existing slaves (who were often quite valuable property). Freeing slaves and ending slavery in areas where slavery was actually economically important took a lot longer and frequently involved violence. So is there something equivalent to that in Megalos? There could be, it's not like the actual economy of Megalos is clearly explained anywhere. Quote:
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09-20-2022, 06:05 AM | #12 | |
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
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And you can justify a reform of that law on purely economic grounds. It would function as a carrot to the stick of punishment and would bring in some actual tax income on the fees paid to the bureaucracy (as opposed to the outright bribes on the rare occasion the current system is used). I think that the Emperor would know that changing too fast was a bad idea. He would have some access to the records of how things changed on Earth and since he has enough problems keeping the factions of the Empire together he would want to 'make haste slowly'. My idea for a campaign is that things get away from him and he finds himself forced to change things faster than he wants to. As for the weakness of the Church, maybe not so much. They could bring one of the two great fighting orders to the table as well as the magical resources of the Thomasite Order and a large part of the Imperial Bureaucracy. The local 'FBI', the Michaelites, are also technically under the Church.
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Michael Cule,
Genius for Hire, Gaming Dinosaur Second Class |
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09-20-2022, 08:41 AM | #13 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
Do you have a method for the PCs to be aware of these political forces? The trick with getting player buy-in for this kind of stuff is their awareness of and sympathy for the Emperor's position. Otherwise it can look as if the GM is changing things in an arbitrary manner.
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09-20-2022, 10:42 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
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The players were agents/investigators for one of the Imperial Magistrates that have been sent out to deal with the backlog of Appeals to the Emperor that has built up while the Demon Usurper was busy ignoring all that boring stuff. At Terridar they encountered a case that had arisen out of the current manumission law (Only the Emperor can do it) and the downright abusive behaviour of the Earl Of Teridar in offering manumission to the champion of the Emperor's Birthday Games and then not actually sending in the petition (it's cheaper that way) and just saying the Emperor had refused the request. This got them entangled in an attempt at a mass slave revolt and the intervention of the Templars who wanted to gain a foothold on the mainland. And one of the PCs afterward passed a proposal for reform on to his boss, the Magistrate, who passed it on to his boss The Emperor. So they are there at the start and can see the effects as they travel around the Empire on circuit. And naturally, life being unfair like that, the good results will get attributed to the Emperor and the bad to the damn fool who thought it up.
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Michael Cule,
Genius for Hire, Gaming Dinosaur Second Class |
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09-20-2022, 03:46 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
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Interesting to see serfdom and slavery coexisting - which I don't recall happening historically. How do the two interact? |
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09-20-2022, 04:48 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: Dec 2020
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
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In the worly of YRTH both systems make much sense, serfdom brought over from earth, because it was the middle ages were the banestorm first occured, and slavery. a nation like Megalos or other warmongers will have a steady supply of prosoners of war, which makes slaves cheap and easy to aquire. Interesting question, which borders to the philosophical. In old history slave were allowed to have property including other slaves. But a slave owning himself would be a free person, because no other person owns him. a slave has by definition a master who has to be another person or in certain cases intitution. A lot of slaves in the late roman time were owned by the church - who was not a good master. In the time before slaves could be owned by the state, temples or just movable inventory of a farm or manufactory, or being owned by a singel person. Last edited by Willy; 09-20-2022 at 04:48 PM. Reason: spelling error |
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09-20-2022, 04:52 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
In Megalos, presumably not. Plenty of slave systems made it at least theoretically possible for the slave to buy their freedom, but you wouldn't see that in combination with laws forbidding freeing slaves.
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09-21-2022, 05:18 AM | #18 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
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Incidentally the usual attempt as gradually abolishing slavery is to convert it to indentured servitude - that is the slave is freed after a fixed number of years. Another commonly proposed attempt is to allow anyone to buy the freedom of a slave at the price their master claims them at on the tax rolls, which from the point of view of the state is nice because it discouraged underpaying your taxes too. Neither of these have a great history of success, but no slow emancipation schemes really do.
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09-21-2022, 05:33 AM | #19 |
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
No.
But I could see a situation where a company or other corporate body owned a slave and that slave was in effective control of the corporation because the real owner was missing or indifferent to its running. It might be possible for the slave to issue orders that the company manumit the CEO. But it might not be wise to draw attention to this anomaly in the law.
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Michael Cule,
Genius for Hire, Gaming Dinosaur Second Class |
09-21-2022, 02:54 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Hmm, looks like Earth, circa CE 2020+
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Re: [BANESTORM] Ending slavery in the Evil Empire
The Secret Masters won't let me give any specific details on the Pyramid issues coming from the last Pyramid Scheme. But in my article I describe one of my Yrth PCs who, in game play, had both servants and slaves--but for the article I only mention servants.
I'm going to tread perilously close to a different edge. Based on GURPS Banestorm, the most popular holy books brought in by humans describe how to treat slaves and, by some interpretations, who can be enslaved. They do not speak against slavery itself. So many if not most religious authorities may well be against the change (as happened more than once in our Earth's history). And, as has been mentioned, there's the economic issue. In America's history, the majority of support for slavery was from people and areas that depended on them economically. Those people and areas that opposed slavery generally did not have an economy based on slavery. So you'll probably have a lot of religious folk, nobles, wealthy merchants, and, of course, common people, opposed to the whole "free the slaves" idea. I do wonder if the Underground Engineers, who typically came from a society without slavery, might get involved in the "free the slaves" movement. EDIT: In retrospect, I have serious doubts that stating Underground Engineers "typically came from a society without slavery" is canon as per GURPS Banestorm. That could come from Third Edition, or, probably more likely, from an interconnected Yrth campaign that's run in different forms since Third Edition. But even with my goof, I think there's a good chance some of the Underground Engineers might get involved (those who are more concerned about keeping themselves secret likely wouldn't).
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GURPS Fantasy Folk: Elves My first GURPS supplement Top 12 Clues You're a Role-Playing Old-Timer My humorous (I hope) article that also promotes SJGames/GURPS Kerry Thornley: Dwarf Planet Eris, Discordianism, and The John F. Kennedy Assassination Without Thornley, there would never have been the Steve Jackson Games edition of Principia Discordia Last edited by Alden Loveshade; 09-22-2022 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Correction to statement about Underground Engineers |
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banestorm, megalos, slavery |
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