03-25-2023, 02:56 PM | #31 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
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First give bystanders a form of plot protection. In the comics villains usually dont target the bystanders and though there may be lots of property damage people are glossed over or shown being heroically saved. We do not usually see the aftermath discussed or shown in detail and there is rarely any evidence no one was hurt or killed in a big fight in the city. Sometimes we are even given a death toll but its just words in a panel, not really shown. Though again that depends on the comic, plenty have shown many dead people. Second give people innate advantages like Luck, IT:DR, etc. Use Mook rules, heck just invent a new form of Injury Tolerance: Bystander " Damage knocks you out but if not killed you recover fully on waking up" Or build it using tweeks on Regeneration and Unkillable. Quote:
However, I agree it is very helpful for a Supers campaign. I just wish we had a few more supplements for the genre, perhaps like an Action or DF line, though it seems the Powers That Be gave up on Supers after two early sales failures over a decade ago.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
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03-25-2023, 03:30 PM | #32 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
I've run GURPS Supers games on and off for 30ish years, and during that time it was the best fit (that I knew of) for what I wanted.
Here are the criticisms I sympathize with: - GURPS is very centered around human level. Strength, for example, doesn't scale well using normal rules. I personally prefer using "KYOS," but it's not exactly realistic. - GURPS is very, very granular. This isn't exactly the same as complexity, but it's caused a lot of player overload when I introduced them to the system. - GURPS has a lot of options. It's a set of mutually exclusive tools that fills a warehouse in a world where a lot of GMs only want a simple concise set that covers 80% of what they will encounter. - GURPS lends to more bookkeeping than most games. The current crop of players is used to being able to use a few tokens for all necessary bookkeeping. - GURPS Character building is a mini game of its own where you need the GM to play. - GURPS Combat is deadly. Of course, as many people consider this a good (or at least realistic) feature. |
03-25-2023, 03:39 PM | #33 |
Join Date: Jan 2019
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
GURPS is built to be logical and self-consistent as much as possible, and a lot of superheroes' powers just make no sense when you look under the hood.
I think GURPS does a lot better with supers such as Batman, Wolverine, and Captain America than it would with more godlike beings such as Superman, Dr. Manhattan, or even the Flash. |
03-25-2023, 04:14 PM | #34 |
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
I could see using GURPS to play the kind of Golden Age game where all you needed to be a hero was a mask and a mastery of punching.
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Pronoun: "They/She" |
03-25-2023, 06:11 PM | #35 |
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
You probably hear it a lot because I say it a lot :D
The problem with Super Strength as written is that it's very expensive and worse than every alternative until it's not and then it's really cheap comparatively. It's also needlessly complex requiring extra math and chart checking for something the system should have done cleanly from the beginning. I've run a lot of GURPS Supers so I can probably make some useful suggestions. The first one would be to make 100 point characters and add super abilities to them. Possibly using packages for the powers to make sure you don't allow things like 30 Dexterity characters, cheap at only 400 points and ever so broken. A big part of the problem is that the scaling gets weird with skills and attributes at high point levels. You can have straight 20s for only 600 points. There are advantages and disadvantages that scale weirdly. You're telling me Superman only has 60 points of enemies? This is why it's a good idea to make lower point characters and then add powers to them rather than just having a free spending extravaganza. People have talked about curation: I'd strongly suggest ruling out GURPS Magic and requiring everything to be bought as powers. The breadth of things you can do with magic and a thousand point budget is insane. Ultratech is also really broken if you've got points to burn on higher TL and wealth. I'd also rule out GURPS Martial Arts due to the increased complexity. Because if you decide to use Martial Arts, Magic, and Ultratech you are running the most complex GURPS campaign possible. Just stick to Powers.
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http://www.neutralgroundgames.com |
03-25-2023, 07:08 PM | #36 |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
One issue that I suspect has led to this reputation is that GURPS defaults to (but doesn't mandate) certain levels of detail that can tend to clash with assumptions common in many (but not all) superheroes media. How much can Hulk lift? Enough. How fast can Flash run? As fast as the plot demands he runs.
If that's the style you want to play, there are other systems that can do it right out of the box. In GURPS, you would have to work to bend the system into that shape.
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RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. |
03-25-2023, 07:49 PM | #37 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
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At least some of the power imbalances might also be due to this. I'm not saying all the problems, but I recall this discussion happening at least a few times while I was half-paying attention (and probably dozens when I wasn't). The roles we often see Bricks/Tanks/Whatever-ya-call'em fulfilling in comics? Sometimes players need to innovate better uses for that ST, or the comics really do have Bricks worth 10 times what the Blaster is... but it doesn't matter because the comic book isn't worried about balancing player CP totals. You can go the complicated route of figuring out exactly how much ST your Brick needs to use a hand clap to generate a shockwave, slam the ground with his fits or feet to generate tremors that knock others off their feet, how much damage the available debris would do when thrown... or you can just buy (and appropriate Modify) the correct abilities with the fluff justifying it. Or maybe I'm all wrong; I confess, I'm speaking largely from ignorance here. Nor am I chiding folks for "not working hard enough". Being easily accessible and conforming to expectations are legit reasons why a specialized supers system may be a better choice for someone than GURPS.
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My GURPS Fourth Edition library consists of Basic Set: Characters, Basic Set: Campaigns, Martial Arts, Powers, Powers: Enhanced Senses, Power-Ups 1: Imbuements, Power-Ups 2: Perks, Power-Ups 3: Talents, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, Power-Ups 6: Quirks, Power-Ups 8: Limitations, Powers, Social Engineering, Supers, Template Toolkit 1: Characters, Template Toolkit 2: Races, one issue of Pyramid (3/83) a.k.a. Alternate GURPS IV, GURPS Classic Rogues, and GURPS Classic Warriors. Most of which was provided through the generosity of others. Thanks! :) Last edited by Otaku; 03-25-2023 at 07:53 PM. |
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03-25-2023, 08:22 PM | #38 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
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Similar issues pop up with the movies and super-strong heroes lifting and throwing things (Superman and Hulk both).
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Fred Brackin |
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03-25-2023, 10:10 PM | #39 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
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When 'can this power solve this problem' has nothing to do with the power or the problem, only with what the writer needs, it's flat out not gameable unless you're playing a pure-narrative system. Which GURPS is not and isn't well suited to be.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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03-26-2023, 12:06 AM | #40 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature |
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