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Old 03-25-2023, 02:56 PM   #31
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

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Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman View Post
I've run a few campaigns of supers in GURPS, and I've found it can handle people with superpowers well. By default though, it plays like 'people with powers' in a more realistic world (for example the tv show Alphas), or maybe a deconstruction of comic book tropes.
This is true. Though you can alter that somewhat in a few ways.
First give bystanders a form of plot protection. In the comics villains usually dont target the bystanders and though there may be lots of property damage people are glossed over or shown being heroically saved. We do not usually see the aftermath discussed or shown in detail and there is rarely any evidence no one was hurt or killed in a big fight in the city.
Sometimes we are even given a death toll but its just words in a panel, not really shown. Though again that depends on the comic, plenty have shown many dead people.
Second give people innate advantages like Luck, IT:DR, etc. Use Mook rules, heck just invent a new form of Injury Tolerance: Bystander " Damage knocks you out but if not killed you recover fully on waking up"
Or build it using tweeks on Regeneration and Unkillable.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Sandman View Post
It takes a bit of work to run a conventional comic book supers setting, with the tropes and logic you often see at work in mainline DC or Marvel settings. The GM has to be deliberate about how powers are crafted, limits on maximum damage and DR, and use of advantages like luck, hard to kill, etc., I found the advice in GURPS Supers, particularly on limiting the scale of damage from powers or swing damage and DR, is very helpful.
GURPS Supers is not IMO that authors best work and it suffers from trying to cover too much in one short volume. It comes across as kind of disorganized.
However, I agree it is very helpful for a Supers campaign. I just wish we had a few more supplements for the genre, perhaps like an Action or DF line, though it seems the Powers That Be gave up on Supers after two early sales failures over a decade ago.
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Old 03-25-2023, 03:30 PM   #32
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

I've run GURPS Supers games on and off for 30ish years, and during that time it was the best fit (that I knew of) for what I wanted.

Here are the criticisms I sympathize with:
- GURPS is very centered around human level. Strength, for example, doesn't scale well using normal rules. I personally prefer using "KYOS," but it's not exactly realistic.

- GURPS is very, very granular. This isn't exactly the same as complexity, but it's caused a lot of player overload when I introduced them to the system.

- GURPS has a lot of options. It's a set of mutually exclusive tools that fills a warehouse in a world where a lot of GMs only want a simple concise set that covers 80% of what they will encounter.

- GURPS lends to more bookkeeping than most games. The current crop of players is used to being able to use a few tokens for all necessary bookkeeping.

- GURPS Character building is a mini game of its own where you need the GM to play.

- GURPS Combat is deadly. Of course, as many people consider this a good (or at least realistic) feature.
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Old 03-25-2023, 03:39 PM   #33
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

GURPS is built to be logical and self-consistent as much as possible, and a lot of superheroes' powers just make no sense when you look under the hood.

I think GURPS does a lot better with supers such as Batman, Wolverine, and Captain America than it would with more godlike beings such as Superman, Dr. Manhattan, or even the Flash.
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Old 03-25-2023, 04:14 PM   #34
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

I could see using GURPS to play the kind of Golden Age game where all you needed to be a hero was a mask and a mastery of punching.
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Old 03-25-2023, 06:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

You probably hear it a lot because I say it a lot :D

The problem with Super Strength as written is that it's very expensive and worse than every alternative until it's not and then it's really cheap comparatively. It's also needlessly complex requiring extra math and chart checking for something the system should have done cleanly from the beginning.

I've run a lot of GURPS Supers so I can probably make some useful suggestions. The first one would be to make 100 point characters and add super abilities to them. Possibly using packages for the powers to make sure you don't allow things like 30 Dexterity characters, cheap at only 400 points and ever so broken.

A big part of the problem is that the scaling gets weird with skills and attributes at high point levels. You can have straight 20s for only 600 points. There are advantages and disadvantages that scale weirdly. You're telling me Superman only has 60 points of enemies?

This is why it's a good idea to make lower point characters and then add powers to them rather than just having a free spending extravaganza.

People have talked about curation:

I'd strongly suggest ruling out GURPS Magic and requiring everything to be bought as powers. The breadth of things you can do with magic and a thousand point budget is insane.

Ultratech is also really broken if you've got points to burn on higher TL and wealth.

I'd also rule out GURPS Martial Arts due to the increased complexity. Because if you decide to use Martial Arts, Magic, and Ultratech you are running the most complex GURPS campaign possible. Just stick to Powers.
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Old 03-25-2023, 07:08 PM   #36
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

One issue that I suspect has led to this reputation is that GURPS defaults to (but doesn't mandate) certain levels of detail that can tend to clash with assumptions common in many (but not all) superheroes media. How much can Hulk lift? Enough. How fast can Flash run? As fast as the plot demands he runs.

If that's the style you want to play, there are other systems that can do it right out of the box. In GURPS, you would have to work to bend the system into that shape.
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Old 03-25-2023, 07:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

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One issue that I suspect has led to this reputation is that GURPS defaults to (but doesn't mandate) certain levels of detail that can tend to clash with assumptions common in many (but not all) superheroes media. How much can Hulk lift? Enough. How fast can Flash run? As fast as the plot demands he runs.

If that's the style you want to play, there are other systems that can do it right out of the box. In GURPS, you would have to work to bend the system into that shape.
As a recovering comic book fanboy, while I it might sound like deflection, I think that's a problem with comic books in general. Yeah, plenty of stories have plot contrivances, but especially in comic books, they too often get a pass as "heroic feats". Which ties into an earlier post in this thread:

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The big problem with GURPS and supers is that GURPS tries to default to realism, and supers... isn't. If you build a Batman type character in GURPS, you'll do fine for a while, and then someone will get lucky and you'll be red mist, because that's what happens when someone who can destroy a tank with a single blow hits a technically normal person.
I don't know how much of the issue is GURPS, and how much of the issue is the stories we're trying to adapt as settings. Batman survives in the comics because the status quo is God as far as the Big 2 are concerned. If you want to replicate that in a campaign, that's either an aspect of the setting or we're giving Batman a bunch of Powers that the fluff justifies as "...because I'm Batman!" including Extra Lives or maybe even Unkillable Lv3. The power of the plot contrivance, I guess. XP

At least some of the power imbalances might also be due to this. I'm not saying all the problems, but I recall this discussion happening at least a few times while I was half-paying attention (and probably dozens when I wasn't). The roles we often see Bricks/Tanks/Whatever-ya-call'em fulfilling in comics? Sometimes players need to innovate better uses for that ST, or the comics really do have Bricks worth 10 times what the Blaster is... but it doesn't matter because the comic book isn't worried about balancing player CP totals. You can go the complicated route of figuring out exactly how much ST your Brick needs to use a hand clap to generate a shockwave, slam the ground with his fits or feet to generate tremors that knock others off their feet, how much damage the available debris would do when thrown... or you can just buy (and appropriate Modify) the correct abilities with the fluff justifying it.

Or maybe I'm all wrong; I confess, I'm speaking largely from ignorance here. Nor am I chiding folks for "not working hard enough". Being easily accessible and conforming to expectations are legit reasons why a specialized supers system may be a better choice for someone than GURPS.
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Last edited by Otaku; 03-25-2023 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 03-25-2023, 08:22 PM   #38
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

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As a recovering comic book fanboy, while I it might sound like deflection, I think that's a problem with comic books in general. .
Follow-on comics media too. For example, on the Flash TV show the Flash zooms people to the other side of the world at a speed that has to be at least 10,000 miles per second with no muss and no fuss. Yet later during one of the TV crossover events it's supposed to be a (literally) world-shattering problem with shockwaves if he runs at Mach 25 (which is less than 5 miles per second).

Similar issues pop up with the movies and super-strong heroes lifting and throwing things (Superman and Hulk both).
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Old 03-25-2023, 10:10 PM   #39
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

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Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
One issue that I suspect has led to this reputation is that GURPS defaults to (but doesn't mandate) certain levels of detail that can tend to clash with assumptions common in many (but not all) superheroes media. How much can Hulk lift? Enough. How fast can Flash run? As fast as the plot demands he runs.

If that's the style you want to play, there are other systems that can do it right out of the box. In GURPS, you would have to work to bend the system into that shape.
The big problem there from a gaming perspective is, as you said, Flash can as fast as the plot demands. Which is to say, as fast as the current writer wants at any given moment. ttRPGs don't have a writer.

When 'can this power solve this problem' has nothing to do with the power or the problem, only with what the writer needs, it's flat out not gameable unless you're playing a pure-narrative system. Which GURPS is not and isn't well suited to be.
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Old 03-26-2023, 12:06 AM   #40
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Default Re: Why is GURPS not considered a good fit for the Supers genre?

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I hear this a lot, that GURPS as a system does not fit well with the superhero genre. Why is this? whats the reasoning given? and is it true?

Or do you think that it does supers just fine? if so again whats your reasoning?

I ask because I have been asked by my players to start a new supers campaign and i have to choose a system.
Trying to summarize, I think GURPS is a good choice for games which start with pretty much how our world works and overlay the fantastic elements on top (eg. a H.P. Lovecraft story or a TV police procedural or Star Trek). In many superhero comics and animated films, physics, physiology, wounding, etc. work so differently from our world that GURPS can't use some of its strengths. But in the end system is not that important, lots of goups have had fun playing superheroes in GURPS.
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