Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-11-2012, 06:34 PM   #41
kirbwarrior
 
kirbwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

It still feels like it's your ally that can only happen to show up when the first ally is around, not that it's necessarily their ally.

I do really like RPK's modifier, though, as stated above. It works out pretty nicely.

Hmm, I now can see RPK's is smaller than Granted by Familiar...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
kirbwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2012, 07:24 PM   #42
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

I dislike the notion because many classic archetypes come complete with built in allies

Someone who wants a ranger ally with an animal companion or wizard ally with a familiar should not be buying the animal companion or familiar, rather the ally should be buying those, and have the ally, but the wizard or ranger will themselves be weaker than if they did not bhave their allies (as spent points on Ally)

This seems fair enough to me
Kalzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2012, 11:22 PM   #43
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
The entire quoted section says, repeatedly, and in several different ways, that two NPCs can be "allied" but not Allies. They can team up, but one doesn't have the advantage that guarentees the other will remain friends and show up to help a certain frequency of the time. That's what Ally is after all.
Except there are clearly exceptions to that, as I've already pointed out.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 01:14 AM   #44
jbalsle
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

I have a couple of fixes I used for allies that address some of these problems, and some thoughts of my own.

First, allies gaining CP.

In my game, I use a house rule that states that the cost of an ally is not dependent on your cost, but is instead a flat rate cost of 5cp per 100cp your ally has, modified by FoA and other things. This IMO has a very desired effect, especially at higher point value campaigns like the kinds of games my group likes to play. A 100 point character who has a second 100 point character show up all the time would spend 20 of his or her points to do so, which incidentally is 20% of his or her budget. A 1000 point character using RAW could have a 1000 point ally show up for 20 points, which is 2% of his or her budget, meaning for the same 20% budget the lower point value character would be spending, the 1000 pointer could have _10_ allies all equivalent to him or her in power. This is as hard for the GM to manage as it is for a GM to manage 10 hundred-pointers. Whereas a 1000 point character under my system would end up costing 200 points, which is incidentally 20% of the thousand-pointer's budget. Allies stop being so bad in the point crock department, and you don't have to worry about the vast armies of minions (unless they're wimpy minions, the kind of minions you give machine guns to and send after your foe's machine-gun wielding minions in a superhero game).

Do allies earn CP in my system? Yes, they do. However, unlike the standard system where your ally's total point cost as a percentage of your total shrinks even as he gains in power, you have to actually spend CP. 1 point will buy you 20 points base, divided by the cost of the ally's FoA (so an ally who shows up constantly will only get 5 points for every point you spend into it). The GM spends the points you buy with ally CP, but you can suggest what you would like to have the ally buy. The GM is, of course, free to ignore you.

Allies of Allies. Here I will definitely want to see the concept. If you are a cop on the force, and you met Bob in Homicide and befriended him, Bob would be your Ally. Now, if he had a friend Fred in SWAT, whom he had himself befriended, what Fred's relation to you Ally wise depends on what Fred's relation to you ICly is.

If Fred doesn't know you from Adam, and only pulls your bacon out of the fire because Bob happened to be there, and Bob needed HIS bacon pulled out of the fire, then Fred is Bob's ally, and is bought with Bob's CP. But if Fred comes and helps you WITHOUT Bob being around, then Fred is _your_ Ally, and should be bought as such. As a GM, I would likely be kind and not charge Bob points for Fred (reducing Bob's utility) if you have a direct relationship with Fred. However, I don't see the need to charge you for Bob's talking AI driven car Kitt (I did mention Bob was an alias for Michael, right? : D ) if you never get to drive that car.

Hope that is clear. :D
jbalsle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 02:48 AM   #45
Kyle Aaron
MIB
 
Kyle Aaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I've never liked your actual point total going down with things like that, it's just you are worth less than you look because (frex) you lost a leg. It shouldn't cost points to replace that leg, right?
I work in a gym, and I've certainly seen people who've lost limbs take some months or even years to learn to use their prosthetic effectively, move it without pain (non-foot bones aren't designed to bear weight directly) and so on.

Since CP can represent study time, it works well to say that (for example) having the limb chopped off by a sword means you now have a disadvantage, and if the prosthetic is 100% effective then you no longer have the disadvantage, ie must buy it off. If it's only 50% effective then you only have to pay off 50% of the disadvantage, etc. If it takes you time to buy it off, then it takes you time to learn to use the replacement properly, and in the meantime you have a disadvantage with a mitigator.

If the limb is instantly 100% replaceable with no effort required to learn to use it again, then its loss is not a Disadvantage in GURPS terms.
__________________
* husband * father * personal trainer * gamer * ... in that order
"Kyle's games aren't remotely thespy... I'd say they're more high-minded hack."
Kyle Aaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 07:28 AM   #46
Tuoni
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
The entire quoted section says, repeatedly, and in several different ways, that two NPCs can be "allied" but not Allies. They can team up, but one doesn't have the advantage that guarentees the other will remain friends and show up to help a certain frequency of the time. That's what Ally is after all.
*just reasoning out your post*

Basically, the Ally advantage is a GM-pact saying "The GM wont have this guy turn against you without really good reasons (mind control or something)", yes?

And since the GM controls all NPCs, one NPC having another NPC as an ally is the GM having a pact with himself. An that would be silly, because no one keep New Year resolutions anyways.

The exception is for Summonable allies, which turns the advantage into an in-game ability, rather then a meta-game agreement.

Edit: Although putting the Ally advantage on an NPC character sheet can still be very helpful for book-keeping purposes (oh yeah! George knows an ex-merc who likes to bowl).
Tuoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 09:52 AM   #47
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Traits acquired in play Just Happen, and change your point total. You do not "owe" points for good things or get points back for bad ones . . . you just change in value. If what you get happens to be disadvantageous, you can opt to pay points to buy it off. Or you can hope it'll go away, get cured, etc. for free – that's your gamble to take.
I assume below-average Wealth is the exception to this rule, in that you do have to pay it off in CP if you earn enough money in play to no longer be considered poor.
Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 10:12 AM   #48
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuoni View Post
*just reasoning out your post*

Basically, the Ally advantage is a GM-pact saying "The GM wont have this guy turn against you without really good reasons (mind control or something)", yes?

And since the GM controls all NPCs, one NPC having another NPC as an ally is the GM having a pact with himself. An that would be silly, because no one keep New Year resolutions anyways.
Exactly. It's a meta-level relationship; the GM can just have two NPCs be friends with each other and he doesn't have to do anything to have them be loyal, reliable friends.

NPC's friends who sometimes show up to be of help to the PC are important in a points-based sense to the PC; Revs Friend of a Friend rule is I think the best way to handle that, but the RAW approach would seem to be best done as an Ally with Granted by Familiar, as mentined above. If the Friend of a Friend isn't really friendly to you, but is only helping because he likes your Ally (or helps you indirectly, by working with your Ally instead of you) then it might be an Unwilling Ally Granted By Familiar. He's begrudgingly involved in assistance of you, but only because this OTHER guy wants him to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuoni View Post
The exception is for Summonable allies, which turns the advantage into an in-game ability, rather then a meta-game agreement.
No arguments there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuoni View Post
Edit: Although putting the Ally advantage on an NPC character sheet can still be very helpful for book-keeping purposes (oh yeah! George knows an ex-merc who likes to bowl).
I suppse. Write it down however you like. I like relationship webs a little better, it lets me visualize the connections more.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A neglected GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 10:18 AM   #49
roguebfl
Dog of Lysdexics
 
roguebfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnome View Post
I assume below-average Wealth is the exception to this rule, in that you do have to pay it off in CP if you earn enough money in play to no longer be considered poor.
Wealth has next to nothing to do with cash/assets on hand other than setting your starting cash. It more the social connections that go with wealth.

Think about the lottery winners that are broke again within a couple of years they never changed their wealth level.

On the topics of NPC allies, I think ther another case other than summonable where they should by baught and effect their point totals, the x4 Constantly available allies, these tend to be Ones like Familiars, Pet AI etc aka like Summonable Allies they tend to be tools of powers rather the allies.
__________________
Rogue the Bronze Firelizard
Gerald Grenier, Jr. Hail Eris!
Rogue's Weyr
roguebfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 12:29 PM   #50
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: Do allies earn CP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
Wealth has next to nothing to do with cash/assets on hand other than setting your starting cash. It more the social connections that go with wealth.

Think about the lottery winners that are broke again within a couple of years they never changed their wealth level.

On the topics of NPC allies, I think ther another case other than summonable where they should by baught and effect their point totals, the x4 Constantly available allies, these tend to be Ones like Familiars, Pet AI etc aka like Summonable Allies they tend to be tools of powers rather the allies.
Box on the bottom of B26:
"If a poor PC becomes wealthy, the GM should require the player to “buy off” the disadvantage with character points."
Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
allies, character points

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.