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Old 01-05-2016, 09:09 AM   #11
NineDaysDead
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
You remove points from them and you get them? infinite points. Otherwise, explain a bit more please.
Modular Ability: Cosmic Power (Physical +100%; Social +50%) [25/level]

Is effectively 1CP/level in anything you want it to be.

Affliction (Advantage [Modular Ability: Cosmic Power (Physical +100%; Social +50%)] +250%; Cosmic: No Roll Required +100%; Cumulative +400%; Extended Duration, Truly Permanent, +300%; Malediction 1, +100%) [135/level]

This will count as a Beneficial Affliction so you can waive your right to resist, and Cosmic: No Roll Required means you don't need to roll.

So this will cumulatively grant you 1 level of Modular Ability: Cosmic Power (Physcial +100%; Social +50%) every time you use it.

Last edited by NineDaysDead; 01-05-2016 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:50 AM   #12
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Reported as either spam or just incomprehensible. If I'm in error, please pardon me.
No, as I linked before ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LevelDrain ) there are tens of examples of games where enemies can permanently lower stats.
I searched around, and couldn't find anything.

Using some of the advice from this thread, I think I'd stat out the basic ability according to my personal preferences like this:

Statistics (+755%): Affliction 1 (Will; Based on different attribute, +20%; Cosmic, Immune to Dispel Magic, +50%; Extended Duration, Permanent, +150%; Malediction 2, +150%; Life Drain, 1d, +200%; Feature, Dice-adds, +0%; Cumulative, +400%; Sorcery, ‑15%) [86].

Which is technically different from what I asked for, I admit.

Something like this might be considered a curse that can only be dispelled in certain ways as appropriate (Like anything that removes curses). Matching this even more to my specific needs of being a melee ability that takes a large amount of time just amounts to it costing a few points less. Probably a 5% nuisance effect for requiring a grapple, and a 20% takes extra time for 4 seconds of interrupt-ability, and a 30% for melee range, taking it down to 80. I also just casually observed the truly permanent version would add an extra 100% making it worth exactly 10 more points in both cases.
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Last edited by Pseudonym; 01-05-2016 at 10:01 AM. Reason: left off cumulative :P
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Old 01-05-2016, 12:24 PM   #13
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Negated Advantage is worth +1% per point the advantage the worth, not +10%.
Yeah, I meant "Negated Disadvantage" - that was a mistake.


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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Why not just multiply by 3.5?
Because Dice + Adds specifically says the breakpoints at 4 and 7?

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Why is this cheating? Can you back up that assertion?
You know, if you're GMing it you can happily say "Hey, you can buy this ability like any other." But if I were GMing it or writing it - my game designer instincts say "This is cheesy as hell and it's rules-breaking so if a player want's he needs to pay for it." I might even go higher than +300% depending on the campaign. Something like +500% or so wouldn't be far off. It's effectively a built in UB.

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Without "Cumulative +400%" repeated attacks won't be cumulative.
That's a fair point - so another +400% on Affliction.

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Modular Ability: Cosmic Power (Physical +100%; Social +50%) [25/level]

Is effectively 1CP/level in anything you want it to be.

Affliction (Advantage [Modular Ability: Cosmic Power (Physical +100%; Social +50%)] +250%; Cosmic: No Roll Required +100%; Cumulative +400%; Extended Duration, Truly Permanent, +300%; Malediction 1, +100%) [135/level]

This will count as a Beneficial Affliction so you can waive your right to resist, and Cosmic: No Roll Required means you don't need to roll.

So this will cumulatively grant you 1 level of Modular Ability: Cosmic Power (Physcial +100%; Social +50%) every time you use it.
Again, that's not what I would do. GURPS owing to its amazing flexibility and awesomeness allows you to go different directions. I again ask "So now you have to keep track of a separate pool? That's jsut weird. No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Pseudonym View Post
No, as I linked before ( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LevelDrain ) there are tens of examples of games where enemies can permanently lower stats.
I searched around, and couldn't find anything.

Using some of the advice from this thread, I think I'd stat out the basic ability according to my personal preferences like this:

Statistics (+755%): Affliction 1 (Will; Based on different attribute, +20%; Cosmic, Immune to Dispel Magic, +50%; Extended Duration, Permanent, +150%; Malediction 2, +150%; Life Drain, 1d, +200%; Feature, Dice-adds, +0%; Cumulative, +400%; Sorcery, ‑15%) [86].

Which is technically different from what I asked for, I admit.

Something like this might be considered a curse that can only be dispelled in certain ways as appropriate (Like anything that removes curses). Matching this even more to my specific needs of being a melee ability that takes a large amount of time just amounts to it costing a few points less. Probably a 5% nuisance effect for requiring a grapple, and a 20% takes extra time for 4 seconds of interrupt-ability, and a 30% for melee range, taking it down to 80. I also just casually observed the truly permanent version would add an extra 100% making it worth exactly 10 more points in both cases.
I don't think you need the Immune to Dispel up there - being truly permanent means you can't get rid of it without similiar altering traits or buying it off.
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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I don't think you need the Immune to Dispel up there - being truly permanent means you can't get rid of it without similiar altering traits or buying it off.
I specifically chose to roll with a slightly tempered version; If I go with that version, following the pattern of Stone To Flesh on P. 15 of Thaumatology-Sorcery, it becomes only "almost permanent" (like "mostly dead") with the same kind of exceptions to which Flesh To Stone is subject.

I agree your version is more accurate for a truly permanent effect, but as a GM, I have a phobia of ever thinking it is fair to permanently reduce a player's points in the style of campaigns I usually play, mostly because I hate the effect in video games, like a sympathy kinda thing.

To take it to a totally way too personal level, losing character points to me is like losing hours or days of knowledge, training, and experiences that make up the character. It's like removing a piece of what makes the character who he or she is; dunno if anyone else reads points like that, but when I'm playing a game, and an enemy suddenly lowers strength, I cringe thinking how their musculature and skeletal system has just been integrally ruined; when someone permanently loses Intelligence, I kinda shudder at the thought of what that would feel like to be in the character's place.

But at the same time, painful experiences like that lead to interesting opportunities to overcome the sudden deficiencies as well as any other sudden lost limb disadvantage or mental disadvantage.

As a PS, I credited this discussion in a thing I wrote, putting together the pieces from the discussion that seemed to work for me.

http://pseudoboo.blogspot.com/2016/0...oulsucker.html
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Again, that's not what I would do. GURPS owing to its amazing flexibility and awesomeness allows you to go different directions. I again ask "So now you have to keep track of a separate pool? That's jsut weird. No thanks.
I'd throw One Use Only on the CMA. Sure, it makes the ability a lot cheaper, but, it makes the points gained legitimate character points: once spent, they're spent.
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:52 PM   #16
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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I specifically chose to roll with a slightly tempered version; If I go with that version, following the pattern of Stone To Flesh on P. 15 of Thaumatology-Sorcery, it becomes only "almost permanent" (like "mostly dead") with the same kind of exceptions to which Flesh To Stone is subject.

I agree your version is more accurate for a truly permanent effect, but as a GM, I have a phobia of ever thinking it is fair to permanently reduce a player's points in the style of campaigns I usually play, mostly because I hate the effect in video games, like a sympathy kinda thing.

To take it to a totally way too personal level, losing character points to me is like losing hours or days of knowledge, training, and experiences that make up the character. It's like removing a piece of what makes the character who he or she is; dunno if anyone else reads points like that, but when I'm playing a game, and an enemy suddenly lowers strength, I cringe thinking how their musculature and skeletal system has just been integrally ruined; when someone permanently loses Intelligence, I kinda shudder at the thought of what that would feel like to be in the character's place.

But at the same time, painful experiences like that lead to interesting opportunities to overcome the sudden deficiencies as well as any other sudden lost limb disadvantage or mental disadvantage.

As a PS, I credited this discussion in a thing I wrote, putting together the pieces from the discussion that seemed to work for me.

http://pseudoboo.blogspot.com/2016/0...oulsucker.html
Oh, no. That's totally legit reasoning. :-)
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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I'd throw One Use Only on the CMA. Sure, it makes the ability a lot cheaper, but, it makes the points gained legitimate character points: once spent, they're spent.
Again, you're making the pool permanent...so one use means you get one use of the pool, right? That's how that read to me. This is why I don't like the CMA approach. It raises too many annoying questions. Granted, before GURPS Power-Ups 4: Enhancements this was the only sane way to do it - but now? There are better ways that do directly what is to be done.
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Again, you're making the pool permanent...so one use means you get one use of the pool, right? That's how that read to me. This is why I don't like the CMA approach. It raises too many annoying questions. Granted, before GURPS Power-Ups 4: Enhancements this was the only sane way to do it - but now? There are better ways that do directly what is to be done.
Even if you have a non-permanent duration, One Use Only means no re-shuffling those points. So, you can save up as much as you want, with unspent points being safe, but, everything you spend is just marked on your character sheet as points spent.

Now, for this to be a character concept, there would be some heavy limitations on using the power in the first place, and this character would probably have Cannot Learn, making this the only source of points gain they can have.
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Even if you have a non-permanent duration, One Use Only means no re-shuffling those points. So, you can save up as much as you want, with unspent points being safe, but, everything you spend is just marked on your character sheet as points spent.

Now, for this to be a character concept, there would be some heavy limitations on using the power in the first place, and this character would probably have Cannot Learn, making this the only source of points gain they can have.
Yup. I know how that works. What I'm suspicious of is how it interacts with Modular Abilities. Modular Abilities are essentially rearrangeable character points with limits. So what you are getting is not "I have this ability now because I have permanent modular abilities," but rather "I now have a pool of abilities that are fixed and I can use them once." That'why it doesn't jive with me.
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Old 01-05-2016, 02:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Attack Character Points?

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Yup. I know how that works. What I'm suspicious of is how it interacts with Modular Abilities. Modular Abilities are essentially rearrangeable character points with limits. So what you are getting is not "I have this ability now because I have permanent modular abilities," but rather "I now have a pool of abilities that are fixed and I can use them once." That'why it doesn't jive with me.
On paper, it looks like a fixed pool of abilities. Mechanically (and renaming it on the sheet), it's just character points. And these points should follow the same rules on spending as any other earned character points, including GM Veto on what you want to buy.
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