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Old 10-15-2021, 11:47 AM   #1
Daimyo_Shi
 
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Default Design Preferences

Hey I back at least for a little bit, working back on the Car Wars Campaign that I don't have players for.

Anyway I was wondering what Design preferences others have, what I mean is things that you favour sometimes even while you recognize that it might be a bad idea or can cause difficulty.

I going to preface mine with the fact I am at best an Arm Chair General because I haven't played in years and I don't have people to test stuff.

I am really fond of Lasers especially on Arena cars where you are not going to drive 200 miles clearly, so no laser batteries need. I recognize smoke and expense as limiting factors but I don't let it stop me.

I run on solid tires, I don't like Plasicore, and I only use PR is limited circumstances. Tires are a weakness so go with the all around best when you can. This is especially important in the cheaper divisions.

How do I show it a Car made for Douches with more money than Sense? Gas Engines and/or Gauss gun(s)

I have preference to Build Road cars over Arena cars.

I over power everything despite the fact I believe an arena car shouldn't go over 80 or 90 miles because you never really going to go that fast in an Arena. Granted this does give options in road cars of running.

I rarely use metal armour

Accuracy is king!

If you bother with rocket Laser guide them.

Armour is multiples of 5 or even numbers only

I mostly design Sedans and up, I rarely do at smaller cars.

When affordable fire proof everything.

CA is overrated I rarely use it.

I am stuck in late seventies and Eighties aesthetics

I vastly prefer Spike droppers, Paint Sprays and Smokescreens in drop weapons, the occasional flame cloud ejector rarely.

Front Weapons and Turrets, rarely do I use side weapons.

I rarely use gunners in designs [Often because I put an engine just little [or a lot] too big]

Front Hubs, Rear guards unless oversized. 8 to 10 points only.
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Old 10-15-2021, 03:32 PM   #2
juris
 
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Default Re: Design Preferences

We have very different design philosophies :)

In the arena cheaper is always better. A RR with HEAT or HESH and a +1 SWC is better than a laser.

Solid tires are expensive. A SB PR tire has 1 less DP and is cheaper

Gas engines are great in the arena - just put the smallest lawnmower engine in your car that you can. You'll need an IFE minimum though or you'll explode

Metal armor - great for lower divisions - it's half as much as plastic cost wise

A FE > FP armor in almost every way, but mostly cost. Also, just because you have FP doesn't mean you can't catch fire (internal hits).

CA is king - mandatory with metal armor. Putting 10 points around the driver is almost mandatory for me unless it's a tiny car. You don't want to die from a 4 point internal hit.

And finally, always wear body armor, and a flak jacket and PFE if you can. That will save you so many times. Minimum $250 BA even in Div 5.
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Old 10-15-2021, 04:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: Design Preferences

From my days in NOVA:

-- Body/Power pack is Mid/electric to about D20; D25 and up, Lux/150cid with Turbo. I do have a 150cid-turbo-powered Pickup in D40, but I only used it once, and the next time NOVA ran a D40 event, no one showed up but me.... (Apparently two linked BCs is a bit intimidating. >:) )

-- Massed F-facing direct-fire weapons. Unless it's D5-10, if you're not throwing at least 4d6 at your target, you have botched your design. And even at D5, minimum 1d6+3 (passenger with HAVR). D25 and up, minimum 6d6 (we ignored Scott's nonsense about Sloping and Streamlining affecting 1/3-spaces, as it, like most of his rulings, was meant as a direct slap at our group).

-- Dropped Weapons, one B, one L or R, for the "checkerboard of death" (guaranteed at least two 1-4 rolls, plus however-many 1-2s). SD with Explosive ammo is de rigeur; Incendiary is even worse; but one has to worry about one's own tires being hit if the foe is to close. FCEs or FOJs obviate this a bit, but are expensive.

-- Armor: LOTS of it. When the typical incoming volley is doing an average of 27 points (2d6+2, three times), one gets one's can opened on the third hit. Past D15, don't bother with Metal Armor; HESH is cheap, and commonplace.

-- Tires: NOVA didn't allow aimed tire shots -- see above re volume of damage. (Even with Plasticores behind full WH and WG, one was mobility-restricted in two shots, and mobility-killed in four.) That said: Note above comments re dropped weapons; shorting tires was a good way to be taken out in a DW-induced crash. I was able to get away with PRs by keeping my distance (and the fact that most of NOVA were idiots about DWs), but all my vehicles have a Solid-tire option - There Is A Reason For This. :)

-- Targeting: SWC minimum; HRSWC to F battery preferred. (See above re keeping distance. :) )

-- Personal Kit: BA/FJ-or-ABV. Less expensive than IBA; doesn't affect GEs or reflexes; one only needs to worry about rolling a 5-6 for the FJ or ABV. For hand weapons: Any gun which does vehicular-level damage (minimum MP or SMG), plus a couple Foam Grenades or a PFE unless one knows no one is rolling flame rounds. If one cannot bring proper DWs into one's design, a brace of WP or Thermite Grenades is a good option for a "go away present" [sic]. :)

-- Anything else is just taking cost and weight away from stuff which can hurt, maim, or kill one's opponents; and is therefore a complete WOMBAT in the arena.

["WOMBAT": Waste Of Money, Brains, And Time]
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Old 10-15-2021, 04:14 PM   #4
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Default Re: Design Preferences

Barring X-Ray Lasers , use of normal optic Lasers in Arenas is practically non existent since mid 1990s . Laser Reflective Plastic Armour is dirt cheap - as are Hot Smoke Smokescreens , HDSSs , Hot Smoke Dischargers & Chemical Mines . Often completely derails Laser using Player's tactics - especially in tight Arenas .

Plasticores are ESPECIALLY usefully against single minded persistent Tire Shooters . Three linked VMGs , HD Ammo & HRSWC (plus good Gunner skills) , will shred a Solid Tire & 10pt Wheelguard if two or three of them hit well .
Fortunately 'some' of these focus only on your Tires & not at your (very) thinly Armoured sides . So the silly person is often trapped into shooting at your Plasticores , behind 10pt Wheel guards AND 10pt Wheel Hubs , through half an inch of Smoke - ignoring your 15-20pts of vulnerable Plastic Side Armour .

Then almost crying when you set them on fire , blow their Wheels off with TDX mines ... and then seeing the paper thin Armour on your designs after the game ...
( ... good times ... ;-) )

Any player can take you unawares by a Player using a Laser armed Design unexpectedly - once .
They will then face Anti-Laser vehicles for next 5 to 10 Games ... until they 'learn their lesson' ...

One weapon or linked set of weapons , made accurate with SWCs or better , one or a few light Drop Weapons & as much as possible wrapped in extensive Component Armour is almost standard in Divisions 7.5 to 30 . Div 5 budget vehicles can be very innovative . Div 40 and above can be ... strange , overpriced & very often not particularly effective .

Big Guns rarely rule in Arena Combats - unless two so armed vehicles gang up on you at once , and your unable to fight back properly due to HC & Targeting accumulated Damage Hazards etc .

Hope this helps .
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Last edited by Racer; 10-15-2021 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 10-15-2021, 05:40 PM   #5
Racer
 
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Default Re: Design Preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
Barring X-Ray Lasers , use of normal optic Lasers in Arenas is practically non existent since mid 1990s . Laser Reflective Plastic Armour is dirt cheap - as are Hot Smoke Smokescreens , HDSSs , Hot Smoke Dischargers & Chemical Mines . Often completely derails Laser using Player's tactics - especially in tight Arenas .

Plasticores are ESPECIALLY usefully against single minded persistent Tire Shooters . Three linked VMGs , HD Ammo & HRSWC (plus good Gunner skills) , will shred a Solid Tire & 10pt Wheelguard if two or three of them hit well .
Fortunately 'some' of these focus only on your Tires & not at your (very) thinly Armoured sides . So the silly person is often trapped into shooting at your Plasticores , behind 10pt Wheel guards AND 10pt Wheel Hubs , through half an inch of Smoke - ignoring your 15-20pts of vulnerable Plastic Side Armour .

Then almost crying when you set them on fire , blow their Wheels off with TDX mines ... and then seeing the paper thin Armour on your designs after the game ...
( ... good times ... ;-) )

Any player can take you unawares by a Player using a Laser armed Design unexpectedly - once .
They will then face Anti-Laser vehicles for next 5 to 10 Games ... until they 'learn their lesson' ...

One weapon or linked set of weapons , made accurate with SWCs or better , one or a few light Drop Weapons & as much as possible wrapped in extensive Component Armour is almost standard in Divisions 7.5 to 30 . Div 5 budget vehicles can be very innovative . Div 40 and above can be ... strange , overpriced & very often not particularly effective .

Big Guns rarely rule in Arena Combats - unless two so armed vehicles gang up on you at once , and your unable to fight back properly due to HC & Targeting accumulated Damage Hazards etc .

Hope this helps .
[Edit] Sportsmanship is also very important . One shotting a new Player's unprotected PR Trike Tire at Point Blank Range , causing him to crash is not going to encourage him to want to play again .
Weaving in & out of Road Combat & trading fire for six to eight seconds before you destroy his Power Plant is exciting & will certainly make said player want to play again .
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Old 10-15-2021, 06:25 PM   #6
Daimyo_Shi
 
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Default Re: Design Preferences

I never said my love of lasers was a good thing. Other than being really compatible accuracy is king that is.

CA is very much something I can see with Metal Armour and I have at time put around drivers but having good real armour can mitigate that.

Again mostly arm chair
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:04 AM   #7
Racer
 
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Default Re: Design Preferences

It's okay & I think we all got enamored with Lasers when we first started playing . Moggie & his Van armed with three Standard Lasers was infamous at our boarding school circa 1983 .

The years & new Uncle Albert innovations from 1985 & beyond , made them much less effective later on .

Lasers are IMHO inline for a huge revamp in game post 2065 : lighter , cheaper , better sustained fire bonuses , options for more & variable damage , etc , etc .

Charged Particle Lasers (CPLs) from ADQ #10/2 went some of the way to address their fall in popularity , but I feel much more can be done considering our advances in real world use of Lasers in last 40 years .

Armour is king in Divisions 15 or higher , where you'll often face pairs of ATGs with APFSD Ammo on fairly regular basis .

Not getting hit is valid option for smaller vehicles in Divs 7.5 & 10 . A Light or Medium Trike , or Compact with Sloped Armour (frequently backed with Component Armour) is a pain to target at Point Blank Range even for VMGs .
I've seen ATG & RL armed Players resort to ramming in their non ram vehicles , after never gaining a single hit against such hard targets ! Viable against those Trikes - not so much against those brick Compacts over 4,000lbs ...
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Last edited by Racer; 10-16-2021 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 10-16-2021, 09:20 AM   #8
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Default Re: Design Preferences

Cheap. Really really cheap. Sub Div. 5 if possible.
Lots of them.

That tends to mean sub-compact as you get +1 HC for free.
Rockets - Heavy Rocket at point blank (or bumper trigger).
LR Metal armour (focussed on the front) backed with about the same weight in plastic.
Sloped armour. They can't kill what they can't hit.
FP CA round driver and preferably round front weapon too.
Cheap Std or HD. My tyres are -5 to hit from the front. If you can hit them you can probably destroy PR and down anyway.
Cheap gas plants (rear mounted).

Then zoom and boom attack closing from multiple vectors at speed and make them choose which one to go for.

Don't expect to win but do expect to have a blast (or be one).
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: Design Preferences

Lasers: Except for the TL guiding rockets, I never saw them. And even the TL was rare -- not only did smoke render it ineffective; it cost *far* too much at $250/shot, plus the TL, and LGL.

Tire Shots: As noted, NOVA didn't allow aimed tire shots; there was still the chance of a Trike or Cycle tire being hit "indirectly" by the Cycle Targeting rules. (Another of those instances which led to my departure from NOVA -- Garrity brought a trike to a Div. 5 event, and forgot about the rule concerning the single-tire end of a trike; I got "lucky" with my HAVR *twice*.... :P )
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Old 10-20-2021, 06:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: Design Preferences

The last vehicle I ever built seemed pretty perfect to me. I donít recall most of the details, but it was a pickup truck, two linked HR in a turret with 3x reloads, so only the four shots ó and that was pretty much it for the space. HR were laser guided, so they mostly hit, and four shots always ended up being enough. Armor for miles. I had one variant that qualified for Division 20, but I remember Division 30 being the sweet spot.
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