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Old 04-11-2017, 09:52 AM   #41
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
One thing I am struggling with is CHI vs. FP. I would prefer them to be separate. FP for effort human-like, CHI for powers outside of the human norm (to control the elements). The question is, can I just make CHI = FP? Should I have it as a separate stat that has to be bought up form 0 points?
I'd go with the latter. Powers presents a new advantage, Energy Reserve (Powers p. 119). It's basically "FP, but for supernatural powers only". By default, powers that cost FP can draw from either regular FP or an appropriate Energy Reserve, but "can draw from Energy Reserve only" is a canonical -5% limitation, so you'd give them all that.


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Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
First off the point cost per level of this skill. From what I can get, little as it is at this point :( , is that every 5th level adds a level of E.Block at 5 points. Is the X for the DR the base, with a multiple of 2 per level?
Sorry, I probably got too complex there, while trying to be helpful. :-/
The idea behind the {X} was that you'd choose the amount of DR per level of Stone Arms that you'd want for your campaign, and multiply that by the number to get the point value. So if you decide that one level of Stone Arms only provides 1 DR, the point cost for level 1-4 would just be 2 points per level (with the 5th level costing 7 points, because it adds Enhanced Block). If you wanted each level of Stone Arms to give DR 2, meanwhile, the cost per level would go up to 4 points (9 at level 5).

Does that make it clearer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InLaNoche
I see how you get the -10% for the Earth Chi power modifier.
-15%, actually.

But the breakdown of the above. I am kind of at a loss of the DR*2/level. Is that based on the base DR advantage with the -60% (5-3)? If so, then I think I am golden, or at least nicely bronzed to move forward. My head is spinning a bit...[/QUOTE]
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:02 PM   #42
InLaNoche
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

Ok. I think I got a good enough handle to finish up the Earth powers.
Was quickly wondering if I could do this for the Arms of Stone:
Arms of Stone (DX/H), cost 2 Chi/use:
DR +1/Level (base 5pts), Earch Chi power -15%, Costs 1 extra Chi -5%, Active Defense -40% (total -60%) would cost 2pts/level. Enhanced block is paid for over 5 levels, making the cost 3pts/level. At levels 5, 10, 15, etc. gain one level of Enhanced Block.

this way it would be a steady cost, and make players want to pay up to the 5 levels. this also makes the point cost level and easier to manage. I'm guessing I can. I like how this power is looking!
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:42 PM   #43
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
Was quickly wondering if I could do this for the Arms of Stone:
Arms of Stone (DX/H), cost 2 Chi/use:
DR +1/Level (base 5pts), Earch Chi power -15%, Costs 1 extra Chi -5%, Active Defense -40% (total -60%) would cost 2pts/level.
Yup, that's correct. Don't forget to add an extra -5% if you want it to only be able to draw on "Chi" FP from an Energy Reserve, and not regular FP.

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Originally Posted by InLaNoche
Enhanced block is paid for over 5 levels, making the cost 3pts/level. At levels 5, 10, 15, etc. gain one level of Enhanced Block.

this way it would be a steady cost, and make players want to pay up to the 5 levels. this also makes the point cost level and easier to manage.
That's definitely an interesting idea! You're right, it smooths out the point cost nicely, and makes it easier to present. The only concern I'd have is that it's technically making characters pay points for something they're not actually benefiting from. Someone who bought Stone Arms 4 and not more than that would, technically, be paying 4 points for nothing. But at 1 point, it's really not that onerous. In this case, as a player, I'd be okay with it. I'd be careful about doing this with more expensive powers, though. If the Enhanced Block cost 15 points, and I was paying 3 points a level for something useless, I might feel a bit more ripped off.

Another way of doing this might be to apply limitations to the secondary advantage that each level of the ability progressively bought off. So, for this ability, you could give Enhanced Dodge 1 at level 1, but with a -80% limitation to bring it down to only 1 point. Then reduce that to a -60% limitation at level 2, -40% at level 3, and so forth. That way, the character is actually getting a benefit for those points they're paying, even if it's a pretty restricted advantage. Mind you, I can't offhand think of anything to suggest for a -80% limitation here.

Last edited by Kelly Pedersen; 04-11-2017 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:38 PM   #44
InLaNoche
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

I see what you are saying, but I think it works well for this setup. This also makes it an easier jump from level 4 to level 5, being a 3 point jump rather than a 7 point jump. This also pushes players to complete that 5 level marker... BTW, would it not be better to base this skill off HT? Was my initial thought, and noticed that as I got to my paper notes...

Lastly, cloning. I did look up duplication, but I would prefer to keep that for higher levels. But I do want a form of substitution, such as when an opponent lands a hit, instead of you, it an elemental dummy. In the case of Earth, a stone dummy. This can possibly be a defensive version of your lightning speed, when the actual defender jumps back. Fire might use it on offence when someone attempts a parry, to inflict damage during the parry, Air could change to cause the attacker to stumble, water may bind with its substitute. This to me would seem more like create...
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:56 PM   #45
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
BTW, would it not be better to base this skill off HT?
HT could definitely make sense. I was basing it on DX because I was picturing the skill roll as more about being quick enough to move your arms to block the attack, but if you think it would be more about being able to manipulate your form quickly and proficiently, and getting your arms actually in line is less critical, then HT could work.

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Originally Posted by InLaNoche
Lastly, cloning. I did look up duplication, but I would prefer to keep that for higher levels. But I do want a form of substitution, such as when an opponent lands a hit, instead of you, it an elemental dummy. [...] This can possibly be a defensive version of your lightning speed, when the actual defender jumps back. [...] This to me would seem more like create...
I could see using Lightning Speed and just using the fluff of "you put a dummy in the way", yeah. You could do this as an ability too, but I wouldn't use Create (or Illusion, for that matter). Create and Illusion are really both too expensive for a trick with utility this limited (no one in Naruto ever seems to use the dummies for anything after dodging with them, and the only deceptive use is to be somewhere else.

I do have one idea about this, but it's going to get a little complicated and deep into modifier tricks. If you want to hear about it, I can give you it, but I don't want to deluge you with GURPS minutia. Let me know!
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:53 PM   #46
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

Quote:
Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
Lastly, cloning. I did look up duplication, but I would prefer to keep that for higher levels. But I do want a form of substitution, such as when an opponent lands a hit, instead of you, it an elemental dummy. In the case of Earth, a stone dummy. This can possibly be a defensive version of your lightning speed, when the actual defender jumps back. Fire might use it on offence when someone attempts a parry, to inflict damage during the parry, Air could change to cause the attacker to stumble, water may bind with its substitute. This to me would seem more like create...
No need to create. For example, for the Water dupe, use normal regular binding with a limitation "only with a successeful Dodge". If you Dodge (and the attacker "hits" if you wouldn't Dodge), the special effect of the Water copy is a special effect

Edit: also add a limitation as something like skin reagent, which would apply to your enemy punching the Water (or other elements) dummies

Last edited by KarlKost; 04-11-2017 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:49 AM   #47
InLaNoche
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
HT could definitely make sense. I was basing it on DX because I was picturing the skill roll as more about being quick enough to move your arms to block the attack, but if you think it would be more about being able to manipulate your form quickly and proficiently, and getting your arms actually in line is less critical, then HT could work.



I could see using Lightning Speed and just using the fluff of "you put a dummy in the way", yeah. You could do this as an ability too, but I wouldn't use Create (or Illusion, for that matter). Create and Illusion are really both too expensive for a trick with utility this limited (no one in Naruto ever seems to use the dummies for anything after dodging with them, and the only deceptive use is to be somewhere else.

I do have one idea about this, but it's going to get a little complicated and deep into modifier tricks. If you want to hear about it, I can give you it, but I don't want to deluge you with GURPS minutia. Let me know!
I would like to here it. If I can grasp it, that would increase my understanding of the process to get there. At the least it could spark other ideas.

@KarlKost
I see where you are going. I need to see this stuff more like code (programmer at heart), I can usually get creative with components of code. not sure I need to go as indepth as skin reagent. I believe that would mean skin contact. Might be too indepth. But I may look at levels (much like the Arms of Stone) in which better abilities are gain at higher levels, but put limitations (unreliable or something) that gets bought off as you level up....

Last edited by InLaNoche; 04-12-2017 at 08:52 AM. Reason: more to say
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:36 AM   #48
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
I would like to here it. If I can grasp it, that would increase my understanding of the process to get there. At the least it could spark other ideas.
Okay, here goes. As always, if something doesn't make sense, ask and I'll try to explain better.

So, Power-Ups 4: Enhancements codifies the idea of enhancing a character's base traits - things like unarmed damage, your basic attributes, and so forth. If you want your fists to penetrate armor, for example, this is the go-to set of rules. The basic idea is, you figure out how much it would cost to buy the stat up from "zero", apply your enhancements to that cost, and then only pay the difference, the points that it would cost to have the enhanced trait. If you calculate it would cost 10 points to buy a trait up from zero, and apply a +20% enhancement, then you'd only actually pay 2 points to have that enhancement on the trait (the difference between the unmodified 10 points and the 12 points you'd pay after applying +20%).

Among the ideas presented there is the notion of enhancing defenses, which is what I'm going to suggest here. Buying up defenses from zero uses the cost of Enhanced Defenses to set the "base cost", so that's what my numbers are based on.

Now, the "substitution technique" is basically a dodge - it's a matter of getting out of the way of an attack, rather than blocking it or parrying it. However, it's also deceptive - after using it, the character is not usually just behind the dummy that gets hit, they're popping up somewhere else. I think all this can be covered by a new Cosmic modifier for Dodge, let's call it "Displacement". Here's how I'd write up the modifier:

Cosmic, Displacement: When you successfully dodge, you literally aren't where the opponent thought you were - your "body" vanishes in a puff of smoke, is revealed as a simple object concealed by illusion, or is otherwise revealed as false. Meanwhile, you must decide where you really are located. This can be any place that fits two criteria. First, it must be a location you can still see the battle from. Second, it must be a place you could have reached (based on Basic Move and other traits that you can use to move) since the last time your position was definitely fixed. For example, if you attacked the foe successfully on your turn, that's where you were - you probably couldn't have been somewhere else and actually hit them. On the other hand, if you had been hiding in the bushes for three turns, your location options could be much higher - anywhere that had cover for you to hide that was within three turns of movement would be a plausible place to be.
If your new position would involve concealing yourself from an enemy who had already spotted you, you must make the relevant skill roll, probably in a Quick Contest, when you dodge. If you fail the roll, you were never concealed in the first place, and you are actually where people think you are (you do still successfully dodge the attack, though). +50%.

So, for this ability, since it's part of the ninja powers, we'll also apply the usual Elemental Chi power modifier. That makes the modifier to apply to Dodge +35%. Enhanced Dodge is the relevant trait to calculate the cost of Dodge, so the base cost is 15 points per level of Dodge affected. That means the cost per each level of Dodge affected is going to be 5.25 points (15 +35% is 20.25 points, minus the base 15 cost).

Since the substitution technique is sort of its own skill in the Naruto setting, let's let characters buy it up basically independently of their normal Dodge, rather than fixing it exactly to their Dodge score. It shouldn't exceed Dodge, though, since I don't think you should be better at dodging using esoteric illusion techniques rather than just, you know, getting out of the way.

So the ability would look like this:

Substitution Technique
Level 1: 16 points, level 2 and higher 5.25 points


You can avoid an attack by placing a "dummy" formed from your chosen element and concealed by an illusion in place of yourself.
To use this technique to defend, you must spend 1 Chi or FP, and roll against a target number of 3 (plus 1 for every level after the first). If you succeed, the attack strikes the dummy, not you, and you can declare that you are actually at another location entirely, which must be a place you could have reached since the last time your actions would have required you to be in a specific location.
You can only buy levels of this ability to improve your target to avoid attacks up to the level of your regular Dodge target. Any penalties that would apply to your Dodge defense also apply to your roll to use this ability.

Statistics: Level one: Basic Dodge level 3, enhanced (Cosmic: Displacement, +50%; Elemental Chi, -15%) [16]. Each additional level enhances another level of basic Dodge, + [5.25].
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:22 AM   #49
InLaNoche
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
Okay, here goes....Substitution Technique
Level 1: 16 points, level 2 and higher 5.25 points


You can avoid an attack by placing a "dummy" formed from your chosen element and concealed by an illusion in place of yourself.
To use this technique to defend, you must spend 1 Chi or FP, and roll against a target number of 3 (plus 1 for every level after the first). If you succeed, the attack strikes the dummy, not you, and you can declare that you are actually at another location entirely, which must be a place you could have reached since the last time your actions would have required you to be in a specific location.
You can only buy levels of this ability to improve your target to avoid attacks up to the level of your regular Dodge target. Any penalties that would apply to your Dodge defense also apply to your roll to use this ability.

Statistics: Level one: Basic Dodge level 3, enhanced (Cosmic: Displacement, +50%; Elemental Chi, -15%) [16]. Each additional level enhances another level of basic Dodge, + [5.25].

Wow! I like this, and with all the other help I have received, I think I follow this. The only thing that I am missing is the Basic Dodge Level 3. How does it start at 3? I am assuming this 3 is the 3 talked about rolling against, making this a very difficult skill to use. At level 1 you fail on anything over 4. Not balking at that, I kind of agree that this kind of thing should be costly, especially since you seem to get a free move out of this. Would there be room to add limitations like only possible in 1 on 1 combat (no other attackers within say 3 yards) or scatter, being that you cannot control the exact location and range? I know this would then sound more like a warp than an enhanced move/dodge... Just feeling out ideas I had. But still nice!

Also will look to see if I can work out the 'dummy' being of substance and possibly having an effect on the attacker.

Last edited by InLaNoche; 04-12-2017 at 10:23 AM. Reason: wanted to say more... is that so wrong...
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:06 AM   #50
Kelly Pedersen
 
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Default Re: Naruto like campaign, beginner needs help

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Originally Posted by InLaNoche View Post
The only thing that I am missing is the Basic Dodge Level 3. How does it start at 3?
It starts at 3 because the first level applies the enhancement against the first three levels of basic Dodge, not just one - that's why it's three times as expensive as the rest of the levels. While technically you do always succeed on a defense on a roll of 3 or 4, even if your effective defense is lower, I would personally say that, for this ability, if you don't beat your actual target number, you don't get the special effects, even if you do successfully defend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InLaNoche
I am assuming this 3 is the 3 talked about rolling against, making this a very difficult skill to use.
Yeah, it costs a fair few points to buy this up into the really reliable range. As you say, though, I don't think that's too unreasonable, given the effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InLaNoche
Would there be room to add limitations like only possible in 1 on 1 combat (no other attackers within say 3 yards)
I'd argue that the basic enhancement already sort of covers this, since you can only move if no one observed you, not just the opponent who you used the dodge against. In a crowded battlefield where lots of people are looking for you and can place your location, this trick is much less useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InLaNoche
or scatter, being that you cannot control the exact location and range?
I'd probably slap a -10% limitation on this if the GM, rather than the character, controlled their placement. That's under the assumption that the GM would still place them somewhere useful, and not use mean tricks like "you happen to be standing right where there's a land mine!" or just totally randomize it. The intent here is not that you're teleporting, but rather you're retroactively choosing somewhere else to be, and your position for the last little bit has just been a trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InLaNoche
Also will look to see if I can work out the 'dummy' being of substance and possibly having an effect on the attacker.
For that, I'd add the Link enhancement to the basic build above (+10% if the dummy always attacked, and +20% if the user can choose whether or not to do it), and build the attack as some kind of Innate Attack, also with Link and with Reflexive so that it can go off outside the user's normal turn.
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