My Book Recommendations

[Parabola]

I just started reading IN a couple of weeks or so ago. I'll try to keep this post "review" oriented.

I would definitely agree with you that trying to read the basic book cover to cover was a mistake as one finds himself longing to get through the game system parts and back to some background. I found the choir and band and Arch-Angel/ Demon Prince descriptions as well as the songs to be the parts I gravitated to the most. As you said, it needs to be treated more as a resource book than something you read all of. And yes, no offense, sorry, apology ahead of time, but I was surprised at how disorganized it is even in the character creation process. I've started reading the Gurps version and reading it is actually making a lot of things from the non-Gurps version more clear and understandable. I personally think doing the setting in Gurps would result inevitably in some things that don't belong in the story setting but its a helpful guide.

I am currently reading the Ethereal Player's Guide as the pagan gods are my primary interest. A lot of fascinating background and exploration of the dream world. I sort of wish it just explored the concept in its own right with little mention of angels or demons but then, those are the core concepts the game revolves around. Still the information from the Guide could work independently if a GM wanted it to. I don't think I've ever seen a gaming book before that explores how a god might develop and become a god. Well, there was "The Primal Order" but the EPG presents things in a way that feels dramatic and mystical. From a dream fragment to the 'personification' of a concept through different possible stages and, if it survives, that dream could become a god.

I've got several other of the IN books too (Angelic and Infernal Player's Guides, Heaven and Hell: Revelations and the Reliquarium) but I can't say much as I haven't given them more than a cursory look so far. I've read the descriptions of Thor's hammer in the Reliquarium so many times I can quote what it has from memory and virtually quote Thor's 'character sheet' but I haven't read the overall product yet.

[tHEhERETIC]

Someone handed me the Superiors series years back and it was those books that hooked me good. Heavy on prose and politics, light on mechanics, and some real revelations compared to the brief descriptions in the Core book.

EPG disappointed me, but then I'm basically a pagan.

Originally Posted by Parabola

I just started reading IN a couple of weeks or so ago. I'll try to keep this post "review" oriented.

I would definitely agree with you that trying to read the basic book cover to cover was a mistake as one finds himself longing to get through the game system parts and back to some background. I found the choir and band and Arch-Angel/ Demon Prince descriptions as well as the songs to be the parts I gravitated to the most. As you said, it needs to be treated more as a resource book than something you read all of. And yes, no offense, sorry, apology ahead of time, but I was surprised at how disorganized it is even in the character creation process. I've started reading the Gurps version and reading it is actually making a lot of things from the non-Gurps version more clear and understandable. I personally think doing the setting in Gurps would result inevitably in some things that don't belong in the story setting but its a helpful guide.

[Parabola]

Originally Posted by tHEhERETIC

Someone handed me the Superiors series years back and it was those books that hooked me good. Heavy on prose and politics, light on mechanics, and some real revelations compared to the brief descriptions in the Core book.

EPG disappointed me, but then I'm basically a pagan.

Yeah me too. Deep down, I just want to find ways (canon or not) that the pagan gods can make a comeback and kick some angel keester and ultimately expose "God" as a jacked up tribal god and bring him down. Even have ways that could happen. But then again, the guys you want to see eventually win and who you consider the good guys should seem the underdogs in the story.

I liked the EPG in the sense that it had some great stuff on how a god might start as a concept (ie. Thor might have started as a conceptual affinity for Weather: Thunder or whatever words the EPG used to describe it). But for what I really wanted it for, it was lacking as it only covered the gods here and there.

[Orlin]

Originally Posted by zogo

Even more importantly this book [The Corporeal Player's Guide] has the rules for things that are basically essential rather than just cool facets of the setting. Such as...
*Rules Change to make humans have less hit-points on average than a Sedan

Can you help me reference this? I just purchased the CPG and have very nearly read it front-to-back, but I haven't found this rule. I bought it specifically on your recommendation (kudos!) and I'm not disappointed in the slightest.

One of the problems that frequently comes up in games is that average humans seem to be equipped to take quite a few bullets. Many times, if they're "extras" I just say "You hit him. He dies."

----------------------------------------------------

I obtained the books in this order:

1. Core Rulebook
2. Infernal players guide
3. Angelic players guide
4. Corporeal players guide
5. Liber Reliquarum
6. Liber Canticorum


In hindsight, I think I would have done it like this:

1. Core Rulebook
2. Liber Canticorum
3. Corporeal Player's Guide
4. Relevant Superiors Guide (depending on who the PC's choose.)

The Liber Reliquarum is a great buy if you need ideas for relics or would like to design your own using a specific format, but off the cusp, I think I'd recommend a book about Superiors, even before the IPG or the APG -- both are great books, but their best quality is that they expound on ways to role-play angels and demons by choir and band, and describe things like duties in heaven and on earth, typical roles, and mindsets.

Keep in mind, I'm not really the best qualified to offer up an answer because I only recently began playing In Nomine, but I felt like I should have contributed something.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Orlin

Can you help me reference this? I just purchased the CPG and have very nearly read it front-to-back, but I haven't found this rule.

That's because zogo was misremembering ... it's actually in the GM's Guide, pg. 120, in the chapter of "Optional and Variant Rules." The option narrows the range all the way around: a 9 Force angel may have 16 to 57 Body hits (instead of 2 to 144) while a 5-Force human will range between 7 and 28 hits (instead of 1 and 70). Basically, the ceiling drops a lot and the floor rises a little.

Glad you're getting a lot of use from the CPG, though. It's one of my favorites.

[robkelk]

(Moving this out of the old "Who's next?" thread and adding some links.)

Here's where one can find the most detailed information about each canonical Superior. The lists are sorted alphabetically by Archangel, then alphabetically by Demon Prince(ss).

Complete:

• Blandine (Dreams): Superiors 3
• David (Stone): Superiors 1
• Dominic (Judgment): Superiors 1
• Eli (Creation): Superiors: Eli
• Gabriel (Fire): Superiors 3
• Khalid (Faith): Superiors 3
• Laurence (The Sword): Superiors 1
• Litheroy (Revelation): Superiors: Litheroy
• Michael (War): Superiors 1
• Yves (Destiny): Superiors 3
• Zadkiel (Protection): Superiors: Zadkiel
• Alaemon (Secrets): Superiors 4
• Andrealphus (Lust): Superiors 2
• Asmodeus (The Game): Superiors: Asmodeus
• Fleurity (Drugs): Superiors 4
• Haagenti (Gluttony): Superiors 2
• Kobal (Dark Humor): Superiors 2
• Lilith (Freedom): Superiors: Lilith
• Mammon (Greed): Superiors 4
• Nybbas (The Media): Superiors 2
• Valefor (Theft): Superiors 4
• Vapula (Technology): Superiors 4

All are available at Warehouse 23.

Expanded but not complete writeups:

• Baal (The War): The Final Trumpet
• Beleth (Nightmares): The Marches
• Belial (Fire): The Marches
• Kronos (Fate): Heaven and Hell
• Malphas (Factions): The Final Trumpet
• Saminga (Death): Night Music

All are dead-tree books, also available in PDF. The writeups in these books supplement the core rulebook, rather than replacing those writeups.

Basic writeups:

• Christopher (Children): Night Music (a few notes by traumermarchen)
• Janus (The Wind): In Nomine
• Jean (Lightning): In Nomine
• Jordi (Animals): In Nomine (unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by R. Sean Borgstrom)
• Marc (Trade): In Nomine (unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by "Whitelaughter")
• Novalis (Flowers): In Nomine
• Furfur (Hardcore): Night Music
• Magog (Cruelty): The Final Trumpet

Incomplete notes - not enough for even a basic writeup:

• Uriel (Malakite Archangel of Purity; called to the Higher Heavens): Ethereal Player's Guide, pages 140-141, and Superiors 1, page 73 (unofficial writeup by David Edelstein, unofficial writeup by Rich Gant, unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by traumermarchen, and a heretical writeup by Ingeborg S. Nordén)
• Makatiel (Habbalite Prince of Disease; executed by Judgment and the Game): Liber Castellorum, pages 125-126 (unofficial writeup by "Omegonthesane", unofficial writeup by Morrigan, unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by traumermarchen)

Merely mentioned somewhere:

• Metatron (The Voice of God; killed by Lucifer) (unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by traumermarchen, unofficial, heretical writeup by Charles E. Smith)
• Oannes (Archangel of the Waters; killed by Belial) (unofficial writeups, as an Ofanite by Dave Taylor, as a Malakite by traumermarchen, and a heretical writeup as an Elohite by Ingeborg S. Nordén)
• Raphael (Elohite Archangel of Knowledge; killed by Legion) (unofficial writeup by David Edelstein, unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by traumermarchen, and a heretical writeup as a Mercurian by Ingeborg S. Nordén)
• the Archangel of Death (unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by traumermarchen, unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by Kelly Pedersen based on David Edelstein's unofficial writeup)
• the Archangel of Song (unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by Kelly Pedersen)
• Beelzebub (Djinn Prince of Corruption; killed by Uriel) (unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by traumermarchen, heretical writeup by Julian Breen)
• Gebbeleth (Balseraph Prince of Secrets; destroyed during Feast of Blades) (unofficial writeup by Eric Alfred Burns)
• Genubath (Calabite Prince of Rapine; presumed killed by Valefor) (unofficial writeup by David Edelstein, unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by traumermarchen)
• Legion (Shedite Prince of Corruption; killed by Raphael) (unofficial writeup by "Omegonthesane", and unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by traumermarchen)
• Mariel (Princess of Oblivion; eaten by Haagenti) (unofficial writeups, as a Habbalite by Douglas Muir, as a Djinn by Eric Alfred Burns, and another as a Djinn by Dave Taylor)
• Meserach (Djinn Prince of Sloth; eaten by Haagenti) (unofficial writeup by "Omegonthesane", unofficial expanded but not complete writeup by traumermarchen)
• Vephar (Calabite Prince of the Oceans; killed by Oannes) (unofficial writeup by Martin Arnold)

[Whitelaughter]

Okay, personal order of importance:

essential:
- Core or G:IN, depending on the rules system you're using
- The angelic and demonic player guides.
- Heaven & Hell! Good intros to The Game & Judgement, a description of 2/3rds of the game world and the only write up on Fate. I would argue the most important book you can have.

World:
the ethereal, corporeal and GMs guides; these describe the rest of world to you.

The Infernal write-ups: S2 & S4, Lilith, Asmodeus. These serve double value as they provide player info for demonic games and antagonists for everyone. And sooner or later, every group makes a deal with Lilith!

S1: Very valuable. Laurence is Heaven's C-in-C, so his influence will be felt in any game. More stuff on Dominic! Michael is every demon's greatest dread. All 4 sections of the book well written, David suddenly becomes quite useful.

Eli: Well written, and is a useful 'stand in' for the other Archangels. want to play a Windie but there's no expanded write up? Play a Creationist in service to The Wind!

Hide from your players until you're comfortable with the game:
Liber Canticorum & Liber Reliquarum.
Both books are stuffed full of cool stuff...that you may not want your players getting their hands on until later. Sure, you can always say no, but if they don't know it exiss, they can't beg for it, can they?
Once you've got your game running happily, *then* introduce these books! Start by rewarding them with resonance-Restricted Songs, and give them a head's up on the threat of spies learning Songs from them....

For later:
The rest of the Rev cycle; most of it has been replaced. Pity, as a lot of fun. Only place to get several Superior write-ups though.

I wouldn't worry too much about flavour. H&H will give you the IN feel, and the next most important thing is where you set your game: The Congo will give you a different feel to Gretna Green.

[EDIT]: I did a full (splatbook) write up of Marc back in 2003: http://www.mithril.com.au/marc.htm

[Dalillama]

I'm currently reading Tanya Huff's Gate of Darkness, Circle of Light , a modern fantasy novel. Although the cosmology is slightly off from an IN perspective, one of the protagonists (Rebecca) is a perfect example of what a Remnant Servitor Of Flowers would be like.

[Cooper]

I notice that most of the suggestions so far are actually In Nomine manuals.

If you're looking for some fiction I would recommend the Day Watch cycle by Sergei Lukyanenko:

• Day Watch
• Night Watch
• Twilight Watch
• Last Watch
• Next Watch

The Mortal Instruments cycle by Cassandra Clare

• City of Bones
• City of Ashes
• City of Glass
• City of Fallen Angels
• City of Lost Souls

Also the following Vertigo series:

• Hellblazer
• Lucifer
• Preacher
• Sandman

And these non-Vertigo Neil Gaiman graphic novels:

• "Murder Mysteries"
• "The Last Tempation"

[Archangel Beth]

If we get to recommend fiction, I'd say it's worth at least sampling M.C.A. Hogarth's A Rosary of Stones and Thorns for an example of Bright IN Backwards. (And if that doesn't make your eyes cross... it should.)

(Amazon link -- which is the only way to get a hardcopy -- is here. Can sample it on the Zon as well with Look Inside. Ebooks should be available at iBooks, etc.)