GURPS Does It The Hard Way!

[mikeejimbo]

Originally Posted by opposedToGravity

what i am saying is: sjg should publish gurps material for the biggest audience (of ALL gamers, not just their precious few) they can get.

like it or not, this is standard fantasy. always was, always will be.

'Standard' Fantasy doesn't appeal to ALL gamers. Perhaps the largest group, but by no means all.

And what do you mean by 'Standard', anyway?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by opposedToGravity

what i am saying is: sjg should publish gurps material for the biggest audience (of ALL gamers, not just their precious few) they can get.

like it or not, this is standard fantasy. always was, always will be.

A marketing strategy of competing for the genre that is already identified with the industry's single overwhelmingly dominant firm might not be the most prudent approach.

Bill Stoddard

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Cybren

How do you write a standardized dungeon fantasy combat scene without knowing what race or class templates the party is made of? what fantasy setting is it in? If you decide that you want to support Dungeon Fantasy with a series of adventures will you have them all share the same implied setting? Create another special Dungeon Fantasy setting? Use Banestorm? Something else?

Oh, come on, that's ridiculous. Traditional D&D modules didn't assume a world setting and only vaguely assume a party composition. That's never been a problem.

As far as writing the combat scenes and adventure without knowing the party composition, that's simple. The writer estimates the range of abilities and plans for that. If the PCs include abilities beyond what the writer planned, he notes some contingencies to deal with it. I write about half my adventures for my online group without knowing what the PCs are going to be and the adventures work fine. Sure, the big chasm obstacle is easier with a gargoyle in the party, but that's what the gargoyle PC is paying 30 points for.

Now we can go back to arguing about what SJGames should do with their money when we're not willing to put up any money of our own. That's more fun!

PS - I've submitted a proposal for a Dungeon Fantasy adventure to SJGames, and I fully expect to not make anywhere enough money to justify spending time writing it.

[opposedToGravity]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Ok, the whole 'campaigning for massive outlays by SJG on new GURPS lines' is cute, but simultaneously trying to shut down the apparently successful e23 front is both misguided and hopeless.

i dont think that somebody who doesnt know about gurps goes to e23, thinks hey- this solar patrol stuff looks great. i will order some gurps rule books and check it out.

i would guess that the real store is still the place where new stuff is checked out. so, if someone plans on a new line of supporting material, it is better that the thing it is based on is also in the stores.
otherwise it does not seem like a good idea.
spending money on production of supporting material for something that you are afraid to print because it might not sell doesnt sound smart and would indeed be both misguided and hopeless.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by opposedToGravity

good argument. i dont own this supplement. i would advise against it because it is not available in any shelf in any store. this is a huge drawback.

Well, what GURPS settings are on the shelves in bookstores? Banestorm. Interstellar Wars. Vorkosigan? Even Transhuman Space isn't properly in print.

Two of those are licensed properties and basically out of the question. Banestorm is probably a good idea for most of the reasons I gave for Tales of the Solar Patrol, but it is competing in the crowded fantasy market. Personally, I don't like the sound of Yrth, so I won't be voting for an adventure set there.

Anyway, SJ Games' business plan the last couple of years has been to release products as inexpensive, convenient PDFs, and then, if they sell better than most (like Spaceships and Mysteries) to give them a wider release as short-run "POD" softcover books. Neither you, nor I, nor Lord Carnifex, nor even KROMM himself is likely to be able to change that. But if your theory is right, then if there are PDF adventures for Tales of the Solar Patrol then those will increase sales of TotSP, and that will push it up to Mysteries-like sales figures, and SJ Games will decide to publish it in actual print, and it will sell in print because adventures are available, and rain will fall in everyone's bucket, including Lord Carnifex's and mine.

[Cybren]

Oh, come on, that's ridiculous. Traditional D&D modules didn't assume a world setting and only vaguely assume a party composition. That's never been a problem.

D&D has quite frequently assumed a setting. In 4th edition it's the implied setting (no title). In 3rd it was a whitewashed greyhawk.

In addition, they release modules under specific settings. AND releasing modules and then developing the story of the modules into a setting itself was done at least once.

On the matter of party composition: D&D has always had 4 essential archetypes.

[mikeejimbo]

Originally Posted by Cybren

D&D has quite frequently assumed a setting. In 4th edition it's the implied setting (no title). In 3rd it was a whitewashed greyhawk.

Actually, I believe the implied setting is called "Points of Light".

[opposedToGravity]

Originally Posted by Cybren

GURPS Fantasy isn't a setting, it's a genre toolkit. It's not even on the what's hot list!

GURPS Dungeon fantasy is likewise a genre book. For a much narrower genre. It is on the what's hot list, with a couple of entries.

But it's still a genre book that still leaves a fair amount of room for the GM and party. How do you write a standardized dungeon fantasy combat scene without knowing what race or class templates the party is made of? what fantasy setting is it in? If you decide that you want to support Dungeon Fantasy with a series of adventures will you have them all share the same implied setting? Create another special Dungeon Fantasy setting? Use Banestorm? Something else?

you must be kidding me.
you are unable to create a dungeon fantasy combat encounter without knowing the party?!?

here is a hint:
you open a door and see 6 orcs sitting at a table playing cards. as they see you, they grab their weapons.

the actual setting is not essential. take a town in which a cult of an evil deity does bad things. then describe in some detail the nature of the bad things.
this is portable enough.

if you want to support banestorm and df, then yes, use banestorm.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Cybren

GURPS Fantasy isn't a setting, it's a genre toolkit. It's not even on the what's hot list!

It's 39th at e23. Besides which there are the print sales.

But you're right, 4e GURPS Fantasy is a genre toolkit world design handbook.

[Cybren]

Points of Light is more their tagline for it than a name.

Originally Posted by opposedToGravity

you must be kidding me.
you are inable to create a dungeon fantasy combat encounter without knowing the party?!?

here is a hint:
you open a door and see 6 orcs sitting at a table playing cards. as they see you, they grab their weapons.

the actual setting is not essential. take a town in which a cult of an evil deity does bad things. then describe in some detail the nature of the bad things.
this is portable enough.

if you want to support banestorm and df, then yes, use banestorm.

That's boring.