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Old 08-24-2009, 11:01 AM   #141
bolondro2
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Default Re: Powerstones

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Are there any remaining questions (from this thread) regarding Powerstones which have not been resolved?

may be a very noob question.

Magic p8 tells '' Each spell has an energy cost. When you cast the spell, you must pay this cost in either FP or HP. ''

p69 '' Any wizard touching a Powerstone may take any or all of the energy it contains, using it instead of his body’s own energy to cast a spell.''

can you use more than 1 powerstone to cast a spell?

can you 'mix' your own fp& hp with the points in the powerstones?

p17 '' A lone caster is limited to the energy provided by his FP, HP, and one Powerstone.'' (talking about 'quik and dirty' enchantments)

this last sentencie both limits you to one powerstone and allow you to 'mix'. I asume that the specification means that the usual rule is different for normal spell casting.

so for normal castning...
one powerstone, no mix?
any number of powerstones, no mix?
any number of powerstones, mix?
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Old 08-24-2009, 11:24 AM   #142
Witchking
 
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Default Re: Powerstones

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Originally Posted by bolondro2 View Post
may be a very noob question.

so for normal castning...
one powerstone, no mix?
any number of powerstones, no mix?
any number of powerstones, mix?
My understanding has always been...

At the point of casting/maintaining you can use your FP, your HP and one Powerstone.

Then for subsequent castings/maintains you can mix/match(ie different stones) always using the above formula (effectively YOU + 1 Stone).
Some Examples...
...I almost always use HP to maintain when things get tight...if it is very tight I will burn 1 HP on casting (remember each HP used to cast gives -1 to skill for spell)
...I have had to hold 4-5 Dazes for about 3-4 minutes to do a quick infiltration...I ran through my FP; drained my stones (2 at that point) and used 11 of my 15 HP on casting/maintaining the spells...still was cheaper than making the whole party Invisible tho..
...was looking at dropping a mega Illusionary Darkness to short circut a battle (was calculating the max area I could cover with FP+ largest Stone+ 1-2 HP)...

I have never Run with Energy Reserve (Hell i do not have Powers tho I do have Supers); in that case I assume it would fall in as part of the YOU in above formula (FP+HP+ER+1 stone).

I dont have books at work but I am sure people will be happy to point out how wrong I am....

<wink>
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Last edited by Witchking; 08-24-2009 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 08-24-2009, 12:03 PM   #143
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Powerstones

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolondro2
Magic p8 tells '' Each spell has an energy cost. When you cast the spell, you must pay this cost in either FP or HP. ''

p69 '' Any wizard touching a Powerstone may take any or all of the energy it contains, using it instead of his body’s own energy to cast a spell.''

can you use more than 1 powerstone to cast a spell?

can you 'mix' your own fp& hp with the points in the powerstones?
Only one Powerstone can be used at a time. The next paragraph on p69, after the one you quoted, confirms that. The text examples of Quick and Dirty enchanting show that Powerstones can be mixed with normal FP for enchantment purposes, and we have no reason to assume that non-enchantment spells should be treated differently ITR.
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Old 08-24-2009, 02:29 PM   #144
hal
 
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Default Re: Powerstones

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Originally Posted by Witchking View Post
...I have never regretted not bothering to even learn the Manastone spell. (FREX 30 pt Manastone (no failures) = 3.75 workdays anytime you want one to use VERSUS 30 pt Powerstone = 3.75 workdays ONCE and you can use 1 time/month FOREVER)

YMMV of course but Manastone is a Major waste of time IMHO.
That is one reason why I never really bother to use it in my own fantasy campaigns.

I had always (for some odd reason) assumed that you couldn't re-enchant a gemstone that had been used once as a mana stone. I don't recall it having that stipulation, but I just always assumed it, otherwise, one need only purchase a gemstone once, and enchant it over and over and over again until it was useless due to a crit failure etc. But that's just my recollection of it rather than a rather stringent reading of the rules.
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Old 08-24-2009, 02:48 PM   #145
Witchking
 
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Default Re: Powerstones

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That is one reason why I never really bother to use it in my own fantasy campaigns.

I had always (for some odd reason) assumed that you couldn't re-enchant a gemstone that had been used once as a mana stone. I don't recall it having that stipulation, but I just always assumed it, otherwise, one need only purchase a gemstone once, and enchant it over and over and over again until it was useless due to a crit failure etc. But that's just my recollection of it rather than a rather stringent reading of the rules.
No you can reuse a gem until you break it per RAW...but in my opinion the labor cost of enchanting Manastone repeatedly vs Powerstone once make Manastone useless.

From what I grok from reading the boards I think somewhere (in DF mebbe) it postulates that you can enchant "ordinary" items (ie a pebble) for 4x the cost to overcome the "commonality" of the material...so for Powerstone the cost of 80 for a pebble is high...however they posit the Manastone pebble coming in at 20 works for them. I dunno I dont see it.
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Old 08-24-2009, 03:40 PM   #146
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Powerstones

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Originally Posted by bolondro2 View Post

so for normal castning...
one powerstone, no mix?
any number of powerstones, no mix?
any number of powerstones, mix?
You can always mix your own FP, HP and Powerstone energy.

You can only use one Powerstone at a time.

You could use one Powerstone to cast the spell and then use another one to maintain it a minute later but you can only draw from one stone during one game Turn.
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:09 PM   #147
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: Powerstones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchking
From what I grok from reading the boards I think somewhere (in DF mebbe) it postulates that you can enchant "ordinary" items (ie a pebble) for 4x the cost to overcome the "commonality" of the material...
That is from Magic, the last paragraph of p69. FWIR, it's not really worth it for Powerstones. For Manastones... not sure :?
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:36 PM   #148
hal
 
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Default Re: Powerstones

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
That is from Magic, the last paragraph of p69. FWIR, it's not really worth it for Powerstones. For Manastones... not sure :?
In the end, the question will become one of economics. At which point will the manastone cost of enchantment be less than the cost of enchanting a common pebble versus the cost of a gemstone using the formula given in GURPS MAGIC?

Assuming quick and dirty, at $1 per energy point in casting, and the fact that quick and dirty takes 1 hour to complete even if the cost of the enchantment is only 5 fatigue, this is what I get overall:

Max Q&D enchantment per day is 8 (in an 8 hour day).

Using gemstones, the cost for an 8 point manastone would be:

$960 plus 8x5 or $40 for actual energy cost. Total: $1,000

Using pebbles at zero cost for the pebbles, but spending 20 energy per casting, I get a final cost of:

8 x $20 or $160

Both the pebble and the gemstone are reusable.

Question on a hypothetical level...

Since the enchantment dissappates upon the use of the mana stone, does the quirk disappate as well? Or will subsequent enchantment of the stone result in the same quirk contaminating all other subsequent enchantments? My gut instinct is to say "No, it doesn't contaminate".

In any event, $1,000 versus $160 (using quick thinking and not spending the time to determine how much a solitary enchanter with say, 1 assistant should be making to pay for a day's labor...)
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Old 08-25-2009, 02:57 PM   #149
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Powerstones

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Originally Posted by hal View Post

Since the enchantment dissappates upon the use of the mana stone, does the quirk disappate as well?
By the Word of Kromm, yes.

This even works on Powerstone Quirks. If your stone picks up a Quirk that's just too annoying use Remove Enchantment to get rid of that last point of Powerstone and the quirk that came with it will disappear as well.

This does raise odd questions of what the Power (i.e Enchantment Skill) of your Powerstone is. You could have a different number for each pt of the Powerstone's Enchantments.
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:28 PM   #150
hal
 
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Default Re: Powerstones

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
This does raise odd questions of what the Power (i.e Enchantment Skill) of your Powerstone is. You could have a different number for each pt of the Powerstone's Enchantments.
I raised that point with Kromm back in the day of GURPS 3e, to which he responded, that it would raise the Power level of the entire powerstone itself. It would appear that the power level of the powerstone is equal to the highest level of enchantment involved with the powerstone itself. A crit success in creating a powerstone will raise its power level up by a random value, and this will affect all of the other previous and subsequent castings.

Now for the hard part - finding WHERE he said that :(
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