GURPS 3e abstract space combat (Compendium II and Space 2e)

[rabindranath72]

Hi all,
first time poster here, and a GURPS newbie! Although I have had the books for (too many) years, I never played any games. So, I am planning a Space 2e campaign (inspired by the original Mobile Suit Gundam setting), and I have been reading about the abstract space combat system (which as far as I can see is practically the same in Compendium II and Space 2e).
All fine and dandy, till I read the Combat Results section, and I got stuck on the table (S93).
We are instructed to roll a d6 and cross-reference with the FP/DF ratio, but the top row lists a 7+ column; for the life of me, I can't see in the text how can one modify the d6 roll to obtain a 7+. Am I missing something evident?

On a related note, I have been looking at conversion of spaceship stats from some Gundam books, and many of them list "tons" (which I suppose are to be interpreted as "displacement tons") which I have converted into cubic yards by dividing the tons by 1.296 (took this value from an internet source); for example a "Musai class cruiser" at 26200 tons, converts to 20216 cy, i.e. slightly more than a "Destroyer" (S78). It seems reasonable? (but I am no expert on naval warfare.)

Thanks in advance,
Antonio

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by rabindranath72

t the abstract space combat system (which as far as I can see is practically the same in Compendium II and Space 2e).
All fine and dandy, till I read the Combat Results section, and I got stuck on the table (S93).
We are instructed to roll a d6 and cross-reference with the FP/DF ratio, but the top row lists a 7+ column; for the life of me, I can't see in the text how can one modify the d6 roll to obtain a 7+. Am I missing something evident?

On a related note, I have been looking at conversion of spaceship stats from some Gundam books, and many of them list "tons" (which I suppose are to be interpreted as "displacement tons") which I have converted into cubic yards by dividing the tons by 1.296 (took this value from an internet source); for example a "Musai class cruiser" at 26200 tons, converts to 20216 cy, i.e. slightly more than a "Destroyer" (S78). It seems reasonable? (but I am no expert on naval warfare.)

Thanks in advance,
Antonio

Got tot he second paragraph under Contest of Tactics (p.102 in CII). Winnign that Contest by more than 3 pts allows for adding or subracting from the die roll in the later table.

As for "tons" you can use "displacemnt tons" for this system. In fact you pretty much have to for this system and if you have these books and want to use them you're okay. The latest Gurps books (Spaceships pdf actually) use _Mass_ in tons..

Your Musai at 26,000 of either of those is just a little light for a WWII Battleship or Fleet Carrier. It could be a very heavy Cruiser. It's almsot twice anythign I've hear called a "destroyer" and that was the USN's recent Zumwalt-class at 14,000 tons. A WWII destroyer would be much lighter..

I guess I can help you if you have further questions. I don't have Space 2e. My "old" copy is Space 1e but I think the differences between that and 2e are personal weapoin stats and maybe some stuff in Character generation. I have the Basic set and the Compendiums of course. We're 20 years into Gurps 4e and some of the people here might not evenhave 3e books.

If you get the urge to get new books Spaceships 1 (the core system) isn't that expensive and I like it better.

[rabindranath72]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Got tot he second paragraph under Contest of Tactics (p.102 in CII). Winnign that Contest by more than 3 pts allows for adding or subracting from the die roll in the later table.

As for "tons" you can use "displacemnt tons" for this system. In fact you pretty much have to for this system and if you have these books and want to use them you're okay. The latest Gurps books (Spaceships pdf actually) use _Mass_ in tons..

Your Musai at 26,000 of either of those is just a little light for a WWII Battleship or Fleet Carrier. It could be a very heavy Cruiser. It's almsot twice anythign I've hear called a "destroyer" and that was the USN's recent Zumwalt-class at 14,000 tons. A WWII destroyer would be much lighter..

I guess I can help you if you have further questions. I don't have Space 2e. My "old" copy is Space 1e but I think the differences between that and 2e are personal weapoin stats and maybe some stuff in Character generation. I have the Basic set and the Compendiums of course. We're 20 years into Gurps 4e and some of the people here might not evenhave 3e books.

If you get the urge to get new books Spaceships 1 (the core system) isn't that expensive and I like it better.

I knew I was missing something! I must have read the whole chapter 10 times, and I missed it every time! Thank you so much!

The Musai is a Cruiser in the Gundam fiction, at 26k tons, and a length of 234 meters. The term "Destroyer" is used in GURPS Space for hulls between 15k cy and 20k cy; but a GURPS "Cruiser" rates from 50k cy to 75k cy.

But apparently I must have read incorrectly; I can't find the previous website, but another website gives the conversion cy=1.296*tons. So the 26k tons Musai would be 34k cy; just in the middle of GURPS Destroyers and Cruisers.

I know I am very late on the GURPS scene; I have looked at 4e material, but considering I have never done anything with the material I have, might as well stick to it (I don't even know how long the game will last.) Thanks for your kind offer to help!

[Rolando]

You must have some very important things in mind when doing conversions.

The conventions used by the creators of the fiction you plan on convert rarely convert or comply exactly to GURPS stats and values. So if you feel something don't really match the best course of action is to just use the fiction values and arbitrarily assign a GURPS value that simulates the fiction better.

For example, if while constructing the spaceship you find it have too much hit points or DR and find it impossible for gundams/mechs to damage it (contrary to the fiction where the spaceships where very vulnerable to them) you simply add less armor or make the gundam weapons more powerful so things in th egame simulate the fiction.

In fact you may skip the entire construction mechanics and simply create the ships and gundams according to what you believe will simulate the fiction better.

Other than that, I like the 2e Space book a lot (or any of the 3e GURPS ones), a bit more than the 4e version, even with all the extra pages the 4e version somehow fails to inspire me. The 4e GURPS Sapceship book is better though, but still have all the "you don't use it exactly as written to convert from fiction" thing.

[rabindranath72]

Originally Posted by Rolando

You must have some very important things in mind when doing conversions.

The conventions used by the creators of the fiction you plan on convert rarely convert or comply exactly to GURPS stats and values. So if you feel something don't really match the best course of action is to just use the fiction values and arbitrarily assign a GURPS value that simulates the fiction better.

For example, if while constructing the spaceship you find it have too much hit points or DR and find it impossible for gundams/mechs to damage it (contrary to the fiction where the spaceships where very vulnerable to them) you simply add less armor or make the gundam weapons more powerful so things in th egame simulate the fiction.

In fact you may skip the entire construction mechanics and simply create the ships and gundams according to what you believe will simulate the fiction better.

Other than that, I like the 2e Space book a lot (or any of the 3e GURPS ones), a bit more than the 4e version, even with all the extra pages the 4e version somehow fails to inspire me. The 4e GURPS Sapceship book is better though, but still have all the "you don't use it exactly as written to convert from fiction" thing.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions! I know conversions are tricky, I have been doing them for years; and after all, there's really not much in the fiction to get fully functional stats anyway (e.g. not all ships are statted even in terms of tons). I was just attempting to get ballpark figures so that things can be converted consistently. For example, I don't plan to give ships a lot of armor, if any at all, exactly to model the fiction. Most of the ships will be used in combat, so I will limit myself to the combat-related stats. If the players express a desire to be involved more directly with ship action, I might add the extra details just for them. I'll have to think about implementing mobile suits using the same system; it shouldn't be too difficult.
I like Space 2e's abstract, strategic combat system. It even provides a very simple way to implement "Newtypes"! (PCs with ESP ability can add (Precog-10) to Gunner skill.)

I have looked at some 4e material, but they are way too fiddly and dense for what I want to achieve. I will only be using the 3e Basic Set for rules (no Compendium I nor II), Space 2e, and Terradyne to flesh out some setting elements. I really dislike GURPS Vehicles, Robots, and Mecha; I had them many years ago, but I sold them immediately; and I have a PhD in mathematics! That level of detail is simply not what I want in a game. I kept the core of what I found interesting in GURPS 3e.
I also have Cyberpunk, Vikings, Conan, and Traveller 2e, and I am not particularly enthusiastic about the last one.

[Fred Brackin]

[QUOTE=rabindranath72;2522663. I'll have to think about implementing mobile suits using the same system; it shouldn't be too difficult.
.[/QUOTE]

A human (specifically the 150 lb Average Man of 3e) is 2.5 cubic feet. A Gundam aprox. 10x human in every dimension would be 2500 cu. ft. Divide that by 27 to get cubic yards and a Gundam should be about .....eh, round up from 92.6 cubic yards to 100. That would put in the lower half of the "Fighter" or "Scout" class. It might be too small for much int he way of weaponry.

The Space 1e-2e abstract system also doesn't integrate well with PC scale weapons. <shrug> If you don't have much in the way of units between Gundams and humans this might not matter. Later Gurps material would integrate fairly seamlessly.