Dodge and Drop; can't be used vs. Melee why?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Well, the thing is, you probably aren't. Mechanic-wise, the +2 to Dodge, being negated, means that to bust that you've gotta take a -4 to your skill for a Deceptive Attack, plus whatever the new penalty is for raking a prone guy.

The bonus for a Retreating Dodge/Dodge and Drop only applies to one opponent, the one you used it against. All other attackers don't take the penalty. You get the bonus against the one attacker because it's assumed that you're moving suddenly in the middle of their attack, when they've already committed. All other attackers have not yet committed to their swings yet, and have time to compensate for your movement.

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

if the scenario is saying that it's dodge-enhancing to 'sprawl out', what difference does it make if you sprawled against one guy and not a bunch of others. How do you sprawl just for one guy and not a bunch of others?

As I said above, sprawling, retreating, or other acrobatic movement disrupts an attack in progress. GURPS assumes that you're capable of reacting to changes in the situation in under a second, though. Otherwise, if someone moved up to you, you couldn't attack them immediately - after all, they weren't there a second ago!

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

You do, then get back up. The 'drop' in this case is just formality but originally I thought it was a case of Acrobatic Stand.

Not in this case. Acrobatic Stand takes a full second to accomplish. If you briefly went down, but ended up back on your feet in less than a second, then it was, as Sudodeus said, simply part of an Acrobatic Dodge.

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

By saying Retreating Acrobatic Dodge, does that mean you're collecting +3 Dodge from a Retreat and +1 from an Acrobatics success?

+2 from the Acrobatic success, actually. For a total of +5, but only against one opponent.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Well, the thing is, you probably aren't. Mechanic-wise, the +2 to Dodge, being negated, means that to bust that you've gotta take a -4 to your skill for a Deceptive Attack, plus whatever the new penalty is for raking a prone guy. How it would look in real-life is when you went to swing, he dropped. Maybe I'm too unfamiliar with axe-combat to see how you'd correct, but I think if someone dropped totally down the best I could do would be lower my hit maybe three feet, which I don't think'd connect. No offense meant about your ability with an axe but if the scenario is saying that it's dodge-enhancing to 'sprawl out', what difference does it make if you sprawled against one guy and not a bunch of others. How do you sprawl just for one guy and not a bunch of others?

Mechanic-wise, the enemy doesn't get the +2, because he didn't Dodge and Drop against your attack. Assuming you play using some ridiculously-complex* rules where everybody declares their intentions at the beginning of a round, and then game them out, the guy really is dropping at around the same time you are taking a Step to get closer (if you're already close enough, you'd just be delaying your swing a bit - maybe sacrifice a Step?), which should give you enough time to compensate. So long as you are using a Reach 1+ weapon, it is assumed to be capable of reaching a lying foe without you needing to change posture (a particularly short Reach 1 weapon, like a hatchet, might require you to crouch, for a -2 to hit). Worst case scenario, the attacker does need to adjust, in which case his place in the movement order drops a bit (or he makes an attack and you get full Dodge). Falling down in the middle of melee combat is generally a Bad Idea.

*Ridiculously-complex in what happens when a previous maneuver makes your choice null. If you say "I'll Step toward guy x and attack," and then he moves out of range on his turn, what the heck do you do? Give up your action? Step and swing at the air? Allow you to trade "initiative" in to choose something else? There's a reason actions are taken one after the other.

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

You do, then get back up. The 'drop' in this case is just formality but originally I thought it was a case of Acrobatic Stand.

A Dodge and Drop leaves you on the ground, although you may be able to stand up readily on your next turn. It involves you purposefully splaying out on the ground to avoid an attack - it is inconsistent with a quick roll to avoid an attack.

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

By saying Retreating Acrobatic Dodge, does that mean you're collecting +3 Dodge from a Retreat and +1 from an Acrobatics success?

+2 from Acrobatics, actually, but yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. The swordsman in the T-Rex thread ended up with a total Dodge of 16 after Retreating and Acrobatics.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Unless you have Acrobatic Stand, in which case it's a free +3 if you make the roll. Easy trade.

Considering that Acrobatic Stand takes a Change Posture maneuver to accomplish, that's hardly free. If you do it every turn, it means you're trading a single +2 to your Dodge each turn for the fact that you're not taking any action other than continuing to get back to your feet. All in all, you'd be much better off just taking All-Out Defense (Increased Dodge).

[Mathulhu]

How does after a "dodge and drop" differ from after a sucessful sweep?

In both the defender is prone and so follow up attackers should get the bonus for them being prone.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Mathulhu

How does after a "dodge and drop" differ from after a sucessful sweep?

In both the defender is prone and so follow up attackers should get the bonus for them being prone.

Indeed. Of course, at least in cinematic campaigns, an ally could actually use a sweep to give a Dodge and Drop type bonus to someone else. Riza Hawkeye does this to save her commanding officer Roy Mustang in Full Metal Alchemist. Notably, had she not forced Scar to retreat by shooting at him, Mustang would have likely been killed (either while prone or while trying to stand up). There are limited cases where Dodge and Drop is a good idea in melee.

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Considering that Acrobatic Stand takes a Change Posture maneuver to accomplish, that's hardly free. If you do it every turn, it means you're trading a single +2 to your Dodge each turn for the fact that you're not taking any action other than continuing to get back to your feet.

Yes, I was made aware of that a page ago. My assumption was that Acrobatic Stand was to get back up from falling off a mount or getting knocked out your butt, and hence was a Free Action to attempt. I was wrong, so that puts my strategy of 'rolling around' at loss.

Also, I've re-read my earlier posts and I think I come off as a bit of a jerk, maybe a bit too forceful. Sorry if I ticked anyone off with that.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

I was wrong, so that puts my strategy of 'rolling around' at loss.

Well, you just have to redefine 'rolling around' as Acrobatic Dodge.