Talents vs Psionics

[RyanW]

The skills associated with psionics in Psionic Powers are an added detail (using rules originally introduced in Powers). Most of the powers would originally require a roll on IQ (or occasionally Will or Per) to use. Using the rules in Psionic Powers you roll against the associated skill for all purposes. The fact that the skill starts out lower is balanced with the fact that you can raise it cheaper than the underlying stat.

There are two types of Talents that function similarly, but not identically: skill talents and power talents.

Skill talents (like Healer) give a bonus to the associated skills (and a few other benefits), but you otherwise have to purchase the skills normally.

Power talents boost the rolls associated with using a power that falls under the appropriate talent. For example, if you have Psi Sense as part of the ESP power, you would get +1 per level of ESP Talent to attribute or skill rolls to use it.

[Anaraxes]

You're missing one link: the book "Powers". Powers has expanded rules, Advantages, Limitations, and Enhancements for building abilities. "Psionic Powers" is a big worked example of how you can build abilities (powers) around a certain theme. The Basic Set has the same concepts, but Powers takes it further, with additional rules, examples, and possibilities. Psionic Powers does the work of choosing among all those options for you for psi.

A Talent is a kind of advantage that gives a bonus to a set of skill rolls. One of the basic assumptions in Psionic Powers is that psi powers should have associated skills. (Some abilities in some game worlds might not need skill rolls, so that's not a given.) So the psi abilities are built on a base Advantage, but also consistently have a Limitation added that requires a skill roll. Power talents add to the effective skill of those psi skills in the same way that, say, Smooth Operator talent adds to many social / "face" skills. The Talent doesn't do anything on its own.

[Hanzorigami]

Thanks for your answer Anaraxes. I was considering getting the Powers supplement, but knowing that Psionic Powers is an application of Powers, has made me change my mind. I may not need it unless I want to create my own powers.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

You're missing one link: the book "Powers". Powers has expanded rules, Advantages, Limitations, and Enhancements for building abilities. "Psionic Powers" is a big worked example of how you can build abilities (powers) around a certain theme. The Basic Set has the same concepts, but Powers takes it further, with additional rules, examples, and possibilities. Psionic Powers does the work of choosing among all those options for you for psi.

A Talent is a kind of advantage that gives a bonus to a set of skill rolls. One of the basic assumptions in Psionic Powers is that psi powers should have associated skills. (Some abilities in some game worlds might not need skill rolls, so that's not a given.) So the psi abilities are built on a base Advantage, but also consistently have a Limitation added that requires a skill roll. Power talents add to the effective skill of those psi skills in the same way that, say, Smooth Operator talent adds to many social / "face" skills. The Talent doesn't do anything on its own.

[Hanzorigami]

Thanks for your response, Ryan.

Originally Posted by RyanW

The skills associated with psionics in Psionic Powers are an added detail (using rules originally introduced in Powers).

Unfortunately I do not have the Powers book, so I am not familiar with the original rules... :(

Originally Posted by RyanW

Most of the powers would originally require a roll on IQ (or occasionally Will or Per) to use. Using the rules in Psionic Powers you roll against the associated skill for all purposes. The fact that the skill starts out lower is balanced with the fact that you can raise it cheaper than the underlying stat.

This is precisely part of my problem. I do not quite understand how the skills are associated to the Psionic Abilities. If I get a psionic ability do I automatically get access to all the skills associated to it? Does it work just the same with Talents?

Originally Posted by RyanW

There are two types of Talents that function similarly, but not identically: skill talents and power talents.

Skill talents (like Healer) give a bonus to the associated skills (and a few other benefits), but you otherwise have to purchase the skills normally.

Power talents boost the rolls associated with using a power that falls under the appropriate talent. For example, if you have Psi Sense as part of the ESP power, you would get +1 per level of ESP Talent to attribute or skill rolls to use it.

So, if I get a skill talent is it useless unless I also buy at least one of the skills associated to it? I mean, suppose I get Animal Friend 2. If I do not get any of the associated skills, what is Animal Friend 2 good for?
About power talents, I understand that the Power Talent (ESP Talent, PK Talent, etc.) applies a bonus to all the rolls related to that specific Power abilities, but such abilities are Advantages (Basic Set), not skills.

[Hanzorigami]

Seems like while I was replying I got more answers! :) Thanks to all for your responses, I'll read them and reply accordingly.

[Hai-Etlik]

OK, take a look at the Healing advantage on B59

[quote=B59]To activate your power, concentrate for one second and make an IQ roll.[quote]

If you buy this as an ability of a power like say "Psychic Healing" (B256) and buy levels of the associated talent, you can add the talent to your IQ when making that roll.

Now, if you are using the extra options in Psionic Powers, things get a bit more complex.

Lets say you have the Cure ability from the Psychic Healing power (PP47), this ability is built using the same Healing advantage as before. But since we are using the optional rule about skills, instead of rolling against IQ, you roll against the Cure skill, which defaults to IQ-6 but can be bought up from there. As before, you can add any levels of Psychic Healing talent you may have.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Hanzorigami

So, if I get a skill talent is it useless unless I also buy at least one of the skills associated to it? I mean, suppose I get Animal Friend 2. If I do not get any of the associated skills, what is Animal Friend 2 good for?

Each level of a talent is good for 10% off of the hours of study required to learn the associated skills. Animal Friend 2 will let gain a point in Animal Handling skill with 160 hours of supervised study instead of 200.

IIRC, you can get the +2 bonus to some other relevant rolls as well, like an IQ roll to recognize a particular animal is the same one you encountered long ago.

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by Hanzorigami

Thanks for your response, Ryan.

Unfortunately I do not have the Powers book, so I am not familiar with the original rules... :(

I think most of what's necessary in Powers is recapitulated in Psionic Powers; SJGames' general philosophy is that supplements shouldn't require anything beyond the core books.

This is precisely part of my problem. I do not quite understand how the skills are associated to the Psionic Abilities. If I get a psionic ability do I automatically get access to all the skills associated to it? Does it work just the same with Talents?

No, you buy the skill separately. You don't have to buy it, you can use them at default, but it's hard to be good at using such an ability without it.

So, if I get a skill talent is it useless unless I also buy at least one of the skills associated to it? I mean, suppose I get Animal Friend 2. If I do not get any of the associated skills, what is Animal Friend 2 good for?
About power talents, I understand that the Power Talent (ESP Talent, PK Talent, etc.) applies a bonus to all the rolls related to that specific Power abilities, but such abilities are Advantages (Basic Set), not skills.

You don't have to buy any of the associated skills; the Talent bonus also improves your skill defaults.

[Hanzorigami]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

I think most of what's necessary in Powers is recapitulated in Psionic Powers; SJGames' general philosophy is that supplements shouldn't require anything beyond the core books.

No, you buy the skill separately. You don't have to buy it, you can use them at default, but it's hard to be good at using such an ability without it.


You don't have to buy any of the associated skills; the Talent bonus also improves your skill defaults.

Thanks for your comments Diomedes. I think I got it thanks to all the answers I've got, just one question remains: What happens if I get the skill but not the ability? Is it possible? if so, how does it work? I've read that the skills are affected by the level of the ability (like: In level 1 you need to be touching the subject, in level 2 you need to be looking at the subject, in level 3 you can just imagine the subjet, etc.), so is it a requirement to have the abilities?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Hanzorigami

Thanks for your comments Diomedes. I think I got it thanks to all the answers I've got, just one question remains: What happens if I get the skill but not the ability? Is it possible? if so, how does it work? I've read that the skills are affected by the level of the ability (like: In level 1 you need to be touching the subject, in level 2 you need to be looking at the subject, in level 3 you can just imagine the subjet, etc.), so is it a requirement to have the abilities?

You can purchase the skill without the ability. However, without the ability you will never be able to use the skill. Having a skill in Mind-Reading doesn't give you the ability to read minds; it merely gives you skill in using a power that allows you to read minds.

Skill is for tricks, Power is for ability. You can use the Power without the Skill. You can't use the Skill without the Power. You can still learn the skill though, so long as you don't mind throwing away the points invested in it.