Talents vs Psionics

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Hanzorigami

Thanks for your comments Diomedes. I think I got it thanks to all the answers I've got, just one question remains: What happens if I get the skill but not the ability? Is it possible? if so, how does it work? I've read that the skills are affected by the level of the ability (like: In level 1 you need to be touching the subject, in level 2 you need to be looking at the subject, in level 3 you can just imagine the subjet, etc.), so is it a requirement to have the abilities?

You can purchase the skill without the ability. However, without the ability you will never be able to use the skill. Having a skill in Mind-Reading doesn't give you the ability to read minds; it merely gives you skill in using a power that allows you to read minds.

Skill is for tricks, Power is for ability. You can use the Power without the Skill. You can't use the Skill without the Power. You can still learn the skill though, so long as you don't mind throwing away the points invested in it.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Hanzorigami

Hi, I am new at GURPS, so I apologize in advance if this is a very basic question. I heard about RPG games and thought my nephew and niece would love to play some, so I dedided to read about RPG and prepare an adventure to play with them. I found out GURPS and liked it from the start. Now I am preparing an adventure, but I have run into some problems.
Basically I want to include Psionic powers in the adventure.
I bought the 2 Basic Set and the Psionic Powers Books. I read the Psionics chapter in the Basic Set, and I thought I understood it, but when I started to read the Psionics Book, things turned confused.
In the Basic Set, all Psionic Powers are associated to Advantages, but in Psionics they are associated to an Advantage and then to certain skills.

In beginner's terms:

If you have GURPS PSIONICS, that's an obsolete supplement from a previous edition, and it will not match up with 4th Edition GURPS books.

The 4th Edition Basic Set CHARACTERS book presents psionic abilities mostly as Advantages controlled by IQ rolls, and each level of Talent adds 1 to the IQ rolls for the associated abilities.

The 4th Edition supplement GURPS PSIONIC POWERS presents heavily modified Advantages that are controlled by IQ-based skills and come in levels that provide the amount of raw power, range, weight capacity, and other parameters. This is similar to the way things worked back in the previous edition.

If you are a first-time GM and want to include psionic abilities in an adventure for first time players...this may be biting off more than you can chew. I'd recommend starting with the free GURPS Lite pdf and one of the freebie adventures with pre-made characters you can get at e23.sjgames.com .

[Hanzorigami]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

In beginner's terms:

If you have GURPS PSIONICS, that's an obsolete supplement from a previous edition, and it will not match up with 4th Edition GURPS books.

Hi Jeff, I didn't say I had GURPS Psionics. I have the Basic Set and the Psionic Powers Books.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

The 4th Edition Basic Set CHARACTERS book presents psionic abilities mostly as Advantages controlled by IQ rolls, and each level of Talent adds 1 to the IQ rolls for the associated abilities.

Agreed, I got that part right. Actually it is clear to me that this way to handle Psionic abilities requires to purchase the abilities (Advantages) individualy and the Talents are optional, giving a bonus on all the related abilities to that particular Talent if purchased. (Getting only Talents makes a pasive psi, and getting only abilities makes harder to control the raw abilities)

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

The 4th Edition supplement GURPS PSIONIC POWERS presents heavily modified Advantages that are controlled by IQ-based skills and come in levels that provide the amount of raw power, range, weight capacity, and other parameters. This is similar to the way things worked back in the previous edition.

Since I am not familiar with the previous edition, it doesn't mean much to me, however, in PSIONIC POWERS case, I am not sure how to handle the skills. Do I need to get the Power Talent, plus the ability, plus the skills?
Can I get only the skills or only the abilities?

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

If you are a first-time GM and want to include psionic abilities in an adventure for first time players...this may be biting off more than you can chew. I'd recommend starting with the free GURPS Lite pdf and one of the freebie adventures with pre-made characters you can get at e23.sjgames.com .

I know I am new to GURPS and RPGs in general, however my personal experience has showed me that when learning something new, it doesn't matter much if something is complex or not. Since everything is new to me, I can not really differentiate between something "complex" and something "not complex". :)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Hanzorigami

Hi, I am new at GURPS, so I apologize in advance if this is a very basic question. I heard about RPG games and thought my nephew and niece would love to play some, so I dedided to read about RPG and prepare an adventure to play with them. I found out GURPS and liked it from the start. Now I am preparing an adventure, but I have run into some problems.
Basically I want to include Psionic powers in the adventure.
I bought the 2 Basic Set and the Psionic Powers Books. I read the Psionics chapter in the Basic Set, and I thought I understood it, but when I started to read the Psionics Book, things turned confused.
In the Basic Set, all Psionic Powers are associated to Advantages, but in Psionics they are associated to an Advantage and then to certain skills. That's when I got confused. I remembered reading about Talents in the Advantages Section of the Basic Set, so I went back to it and found out that Talents were pretty much handled the same way (an Advantage turned into a Talent and with some skills associated), however I failed to figure out how to use them.

In the basic set, the assumption is that the characters will not normally use skills. They'll just use IQ rolls modified by Talent. GURPS Psionic Powers does things differently.

[Edges]

There's many ways to handle psionics in GURPS. Since you have GURPS Basic and GURPS Psionic Powers, you might as well use what they put forth.

My advice:
Don't worry about what Basic says about Psionics. Use it for all the other stuff.
Use GURPS Psionic Powers for Psionics. Don't get caught up in the "statistics" section of the abilities. Just go with the descriptive text.

On GURPS Psionic Powers:
Every psionic ability lists a skill that you need to use the ability (unless you want to roll on defaults in a our-characters-don't-know-how-to-use-their-powers campaign). The player buys that skill for the character just like any other skill. The skill needed is listed with the ability (i.e. the Interruption ability on pg. 23 uses the Cancellation skill). Note, some psionic skills can be used for more than one psionic ability (the Cancellation skill can be used for 3 abilities as you can see).

After you've bought up all your abilities and the skills to use those abilities, pick out any Psionic Talents you might like. Psionic Talents add to all the Psionic skills in a power. For example, if you have Anti-Psi Talent level 2, you get +2 to the cancellation skill and +2 to the Psionic Shield skill and +2 to the Screaming skill. But this Talent doesn't add to the Cure skill on pg. 46, for example. You need the Psychic Healing Talent for that.

Don't be confused by the mundane (i.e. not psionic) Talents in Basic. The Healer Talent in Basic, for example, does not add to Psychic Healing skills. A good psi healer might have some levels in Psychic Healing Talent for her Psychic Healing abilities and some levels in (ordinary) Healing Talent for skills like First-Aid and Physician.

One final point. Talents (whether mundane or psionic) don't come with their skills. They only give bonuses to the skills. You still have to get the skills separately. Talents are a good way to be good at a bunch of skills without paying a whole lot of points. If you have a bunch of skills in a Talent, you can actually save points by getting a few levels of the Talent rather than buy a whole bunch of levels in each skill.

I hope that helps.

[Hanzorigami]

Thanks a lot Edges! Your answer is very clear and has solved most of my questions.

Originally Posted by Edges

There's many ways to handle psionics in GURPS. Since you have GURPS Basic and GURPS Psionic Powers, you might as well use what they put forth.

My advice:
Don't worry about what Basic says about Psionics. Use it for all the other stuff.
Use GURPS Psionic Powers for Psionics. Don't get caught up in the "statistics" section of the abilities. Just go with the descriptive text.

This is a very good advice actually. I bought the Psionic Powers supplement precisely with the intention of using it for the psionic powers (even if it sounds obvious). I'll just bypass the information in the Psionics Chapter of the basic set book.

Originally Posted by Edges

On GURPS Psionic Powers:
Every psionic ability lists a skill that you need to use the ability (unless you want to roll on defaults in a our-characters-don't-know-how-to-use-their-powers campaign). The player buys that skill for the character just like any other skill. The skill needed is listed with the ability (i.e. the Interruption ability on pg. 23 uses the Cancellation skill). Note, some psionic skills can be used for more than one psionic ability (the Cancellation skill can be used for 3 abilities as you can see).

That makes sense, If I get the ability but no skills, I can only use it by either getting the skill associated or the defaults, but just one thing. What happens if I get the skill but not the ability? Take the Cancellation skill for example. It can be used for 3 abilities, but what happens if I do not get any of them? I can not use the skill at all if I do not have any abilities associated to it?

Originally Posted by Edges

After you've bought up all your abilities and the skills to use those abilities, pick out any Psionic Talents you might like. Psionic Talents add to all the Psionic skills in a power. For example, if you have Anti-Psi Talent level 2, you get +2 to the cancellation skill and +2 to the Psionic Shield skill and +2 to the Screaming skill. But this Talent doesn't add to the Cure skill on pg. 46, for example. You need the Psychic Healing Talent for that.

I got that part right. :)

Originally Posted by Edges

Don't be confused by the mundane (i.e. not psionic) Talents in Basic. The Healer Talent in Basic, for example, does not add to Psychic Healing skills. A good psi healer might have some levels in Psychic Healing Talent for her Psychic Healing abilities and some levels in (ordinary) Healing Talent for skills like First-Aid and Physician.

I understand the difference now thanks to the previous information. :)

Originally Posted by Edges

One final point. Talents (whether mundane or psionic) don't come with their skills. They only give bonuses to the skills. You still have to get the skills separately. Talents are a good way to be good at a bunch of skills without paying a whole lot of points. If you have a bunch of skills in a Talent, you can actually save points by getting a few levels of the Talent rather than buy a whole bunch of levels in each skill.

I hope that helps.

Got it! Thank you very much! This has been really helpful!