[DF] - Party wealth disparity

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Whyte

And this 1:2.66 seems a mite large difference for a 20 point advantage in a 300 point game (?).

In a "normal" game 20 points in Wealth gives a character, of any point value, 5x the monthly income of someone without it (p. B516). The pay raise is part and parcel with the advantage.

Originally Posted by Whyte

But it of course depends a lot how you use money in your game. What I have heard so far from Kromm and TBC about DF, it seems that money is pretty much a background feature and the true prizes are the magical items that are not for sale and the experience. In this kind of game, it indeed is no big deal.

Like in old school gaming, Money buys you better mundane equipment. The really good stuff is the reward for Adventures!

[Whyte]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

In a "normal" game 20 points in Wealth gives a character, of any point value, 5x the monthly income of someone without it (p. B516). The pay raise is part and parcel with the advantage.

Well, I think I am already on record for opposing Wealth Advantage/Disadvantage in all campaigns? :)

However, point taken. I think part of this is the visceral reaction when someone gets paid more for the same job. He is not using his talents to benefit the Party to the fullest. I do think this would be a near-equivalent of the Healer asking, say, 25% of the cost of healing in the Town for his services. Note that this does not apply if the Rich Guy is providing logistical support as per Kromm's answer!

Again, not a biggie, but in the interests of party harmony, if I were the GM, I'd make sure that the players would be OK with whatever arrangement they come up with together prior to the approval of the character. I can see char concepts requiring this. Personally, I'd be more comfortable taking Wealth more as pseudo-status and cost-of-living thing, like I have explained earlier in this thread. I think this would work better than counting numbers. Or even making it an outside revenue stream (scaled to the loot) while keeping the Fence ability. This would allow him to benefit the party, and give him excess cash for largesse, without looking like he is leeching off the rest of the party.

[Langy]

If instead of Wealth advantage, he would get his better prices through charisma and social skills, would he still be entitled to a larger share? If so, why? Why would his specialization to social skills entitle him to a larger share of the loot, when the loot was gained by the sweat and blood of his fellows (and his, presumably)?

No. Part of the Wealth advantage is a direct bonus to income. In a DF game where the characters can't have regular jobs, that should translate into 'gets more of the loot', because the loot is the only source of income.

If he has the same Wealth level of everyone else, then the Charismatic guy didn't pay character points specifically to have more money than everyone else. He paid specifically for some other ability, which as a secondary consequence allowed him to make more money - but it is not the advantage that specifically states 'you've got more money than poor people'.


Also: For Hans and Whyte (the only two people arguing the other side and, maybe coincidentally, the only people in this thread who apparently have never read Dungeon Fantasy) - a Dungeon Fantasy character is built on 250 points with 50 points of disadvantages and 5 quirks. Only Wealth levels up to Very Wealthy are allowed for purchase at the start of the game, and you aren't allowed to purchase most magical gear with your money or there are huge markups on the magic stuff (as the GM wills it - he can say Ye Olde Magick Shoppe has all the magic gear possible up to and including that $200,000,000 doorway into a pocket dimension, but he can also say all they have are Knives of Shinyness and they're going for ten times the book price). You're supposed to get most of your Cool Stuff from delving, not from shops.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by Whyte

Well, I think I am already on record for opposing Wealth Advantage/Disadvantage in all campaigns? :)

You can be against the Wealth advantage all you want... this thread is still about the Wealth advantage. Lookie the title up there - it says DF and Wealth in it!

Originally Posted by Whyte

This would allow him to benefit the party, and give him excess cash for largesse, without looking like he is leeching off the rest of the party.

Since all monetary rewards in the game are by GM fiat anyway, I have a hard time seeing the character as leeching off the others. Maybe the GM is increasing the total loot found by the party by an amount to make up for the guy with Wealth.

[Whyte]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Since all monetary rewards in the game are by GM fiat anyway, I have a hard time seeing the character as leeching off the others. Maybe the GM is increasing the total loot found by the party by an amount to make up for the guy with Wealth.

Again, it is partly a perception thing... If the Rich Guy gets the same share AND gets some excess from outside source, it means they are equal partners as far as dungeon delving is concerned. And if he gets an allowance from his dad, the Duke (not that Duke!), then so be it. If he is taking a middleman cut... That doesn't seem like an act of a friend, you know? Using it more like independent income (scaled to loot) would feel... more neighborly.

[Langy]

Eh. Why not just have it be 'I buy your loot from you at 1.5x market price if you want to sell it'. That sounds very neighborly, even if he goes ahead and sells it for 2x market price and pockets the difference.

[Keeh]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Heck, the Wealthy Thief in the game I ran was explicitly the leader, because he was their major investor. He brought the oxcart, and the camp servants that made hanging around in the wilderness looking for Giants to fight much more tolerable.

I was a bit disappointed when I couldn't find a spell like good old Mordenkainen's magnificient mansion, with it's bubble baths, full staff of phantomatic masseurs and nine course banquet. Now that was adventuring with comfort.

[Hans Rancke-Madsen]

Originally Posted by Langy

No. Part of the Wealth advantage is a direct bonus to income. In a DF game where the characters can't have regular jobs, that should translate into 'gets more of the loot', because the loot is the only source of income.

So? I'm not saying that the DF rules doesn't allow the PC who has bought Wealth to enrich himself at the expense of the other PCs. I'm saying that I don't think that it is a reasonable rule. Far more reasonable to say that if there is no outside source of wealth, the Wealth advantage should either not be allowed or changed to do something else -- which was what I originally thought had been done (i.e. to "More money at start and better fencing skills).

It's not as big a deal as I originally thought, though. If I was playing in a DF game, I'd simply buy Wealth myself and be done with it.


Hans

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Keeh

I was a bit disappointed when I couldn't find a spell like good old Mordenkainen's magnificient mansion, with it's bubble baths, full staff of phantomatic masseurs and nine course banquet. Now that was adventuring with comfort.

:D Yeah, I want one of those too - I think technically it would be a Gate to a mansion that you bought independently with the 80% of your starting money that can't be spent on adventuring gear and are maintaining with your Cost of Living.