New DF Race - Kabeiroi

[Atreyu_Hibiki]

Well, a Wikipedia delve tells me next to nothing about what these races were supposed to be like. It tells me how they tie in to the Greek parade of characters, but not what they do, exactly. The Telchines apparently have dog heads and flipper-hands, which is kind of neat, but ultimately means nothing.

The template you have so far emphasizes that these guys are LOUD, and I'd spend that last point making giving this drawback a useful application: A Natural Training perk that lets them use Kiai. Hey, these guys just seem to have voices that sit in a more volumous range than anyone else's. It's like the sliding scale for Night Vision.

Now I'm thinking of making a counterpart racial template, who are naturally stealthy but have trouble making themselves heard.

[Bruno]

I'm still working on the concept here, and I think I'm coming to something I'd be happy "finalizing".

As a note, I like racial quirks. They aren't as restrictive to the player as full blown disadvantages, but still help differentiate the race's personality.

ST +2 [20]
DR 2 (Flexible) [8]
Extra FP 2 [6]
Kabeiroi Wardancer Talent +2 [10]
Penetrating Voice [1]
Robust Hearing [1]
Stunning Voice* [1]

47 positive points

Alcohol Intolerance [-1]
Chummy [-5]
Noisy -1 [-2]
OPH: No Inside Voice [-5]
Stubbornness [-5]
Subsceptible to Poison** [-4]

17 negative points

= 25 points.

* Stunning Voice: All Kaberoi are naturally talented at projecting their voices, and generally shouting at people until they get their way. Kaberoi may buy the Kiai skill without the usual prerequisites (Trained by a Master or Weapon Master) and without taking the Monk template. Only Kaberoi may take this perk.

** Subsceptible to Poison is cumulative with Alcohol Intolerance - Kabeiroi start with HT-1 rolls for drinking from extremely low alcohol beverages like 0.5% home-brewed ginger ale, "dealcoholized" beers, and other very weak drinks.
Kabeiroi also shouldn't make a habit of using Alchemy to figure out what suspicious concoctions do, as that HT+1 roll for trace exposure applies even on a success!

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Alcohol Intolerance [-1]
Chummy [-5]
Noisy -1 [-2]
OPH: No Inside Voice [-5]
Stubbornness [-5]
Subsceptible to Poison** [-4]

17 negative points

Should be -22.

These guys aren't supposed to be a PC race, are they? I cannot imagine anybody with normal sensitivity to loud noises wanting to be around them for long.

[Bruno]

With a -1 reaction penalty for being noisy, and a further -1 popping up from time to time from being stubborn, that does sound about right. But compared to such charming alternatives as minotaurs (ugly, stupid, strong, extremely foul tempered and prone to violent outbursts) and trolls (cranky, people eating, shadow scuttling little monsters) they're just annoying.

I wouldn't mix them with a character with brontophobia though.

I imagine them to be a race composed entirely of Large Hams, particularly Brian Blessed. Also relevant is the No Indoor Voice trope, of course, and their stereotypical role in the party would naturally be the Boisterous Bruiser ;)

(Warning - tvtropes will eat your afternoon)

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'm still working on the concept here, and I think I'm coming to something I'd be happy "finalizing".

Yeah, I really like this version.

Originally Posted by Bruno

As a note, I like racial quirks. They aren't as restrictive to the player as full blown disadvantages, but still help differentiate the race's personality.

Me Too.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Bruno

With a -1 reaction penalty for being noisy, and a further -1 popping up from time to time from being stubborn, that does sound about right. But compared to such charming alternatives as minotaurs (ugly, stupid, strong, extremely foul tempered and prone to violent outbursts) and trolls (cranky, people eating, shadow scuttling little monsters) they're just annoying.

IDHMBWM... is that -1 from the OPH or is there a separate one from Noisy?

It might be my own sensibilities biasing me... the thought of having to hang around characters like that for more than a short time sets my teeth on edge :<

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

IDHMBWM... is that -1 from the OPH or is there a separate one from Noisy?

There is a conditional -1 from Noisy (the example given was "at the opera") but the player can make sure not to trigger both at the same time - someone who's basically using the Penetrating Voice perk ALL THE TIME doesn't HAVE to talk (er, shout) at the Opera. But despite not talking, he will still be going ping scrape clank clang scrape eeeeeerk even when sitting "quietly", so cop a -1 anyways.

Of course, if he's a cad and talks at the opera, he'll get the -1 from Noisy, the -1 from the OPH, probably a special extra -2 penalty special to disturbed Opera patrons for people who talk even in normal voices ;) through performances, and then he'll be a stubborn jerk and refuse to shut up when asked, earning him an extra penalty and potentially being driven out of the opera house with pitchforks and torches.

He'd probably be just fine at a football game though (whichever brand of football you like).

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

It might be my own sensibilities biasing me... the thought of having to hang around characters like that for more than a short time sets my teeth on edge :<

And on the other hand I come from a loud family, my hearing is all wonky and one of my friends is deafened and easily excitable, which leads to his "inside" voice quickly turning into an outside voice without him noticing. I've got a lot of tolerance for loud voices, it's ultrasonic sounds like failing capacitors, CRTs, and imbalanced fluorescent tubes that really send me screaming around the bend.

[b-dog]

I'd like to say that this race is interesting to me. I like things derived from myths because there is some explanation of why it exists plus myths are cool in themselves. I wish the DF series would add more mythical monsters and races too instead of just a monster that was though up.

[MKMcArtor]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I wish the DF series would add more mythical monsters and races too instead of just a monster that was though up.

I haven't looked at the DF series, but I have experience with D&D design and I imagine the headspace is not that different (the rules are, of course). I get what you're asking for, because I have certainly gone to that well a few times in my career, but there are some reasons why designers... well, design.

For starters, myths are often fragmented and contradictory, so when a designer pulls a creature from myth and stats it up he's almost guaranteed to hear back from someone telling him how his stats are wrong and he has no idea what he's talking about. Wash, rinse, repeat a few times and that designer suddenly less interested in tapping into the well of mythology. One way to avoid that problem is to use increasingly obscure mythological creatures, but at some point you can use a creature so obscure that nobody immediately recognizes it as a mythological creature... and then why not just make up your own creature anyway?

There also isn't any real difference between a mythological creature and one that was created by the designer. Both creatures were invented by someone's imagination, after all. The only difference is that mythological creatures have hundreds to thousands of years of history (which ties into my first point) to make them famous. On the other hand, there are some monsters created for D&D that are 35+ years old... which is "really old" to some people. ;D

Another advantage of using a creature designed for a game world is that it... well... was designed for the game world. It doesn't require any kind of intellectual gymnastics to explain how it fits in, since it was designed from the ground up to do so.

That being said (and wow this post turned out longer than I intended), there is certainly something cool about dropping in a creature that people instantly recognize from stories of their youth. Of course, since new potential gamers are being released from the factories every year, by the time a kid born today is old enough to play DF, the "stories of their youth" might include those from a particular dark elf ranger and his exploits. ;)

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by MKMcArtor

One way to avoid that problem is to use increasingly obscure mythological creatures, but at some point you can use a creature so obscure that nobody immediately recognizes it as a mythological creature... and then why not just make up your own creature anyway?

Basically that's what happened here, although it wasn't because I was trying to find an obscure creature, so much as I had to really dig to find one in greco-roman mythology that filled the niche I wanted to fill.

And the description of this race is so damn sketchy that it's basically an original creation loosely inspired by the description, with the name tacked on.