Double Weapon Attack and Rapid Strikes

[Onkl]

Hey all

I've a question about combining Double Weapon Attack with Rapid Strikes. Let's take a Thief with Ambidexterity who has a melee weapon skill of 17 and also a Double Weapon Attack (Melee Weapon Skill) of 17.

Is he allowed to include Rapid Strikes with a Double Weapon Attack?

Eg.

Right Hand: Attacks normally - Roll 17 or less to hit
Left Hand: 2 Rapid Strikes - Roll 2 times for 11 or less

Is above example allowed or forbidden?

Thanks!

Onkl

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Onkl

Hey all

I've a question about combining Double Weapon Attack with Rapid Strikes. Let's take a Thief with Ambidexterity who has a melee weapon skill of 17 and also a Double Weapon Attack (Melee Weapon Skill) of 17.

Is he allowed to include Rapid Strikes with a Double Weapon Attack?

Eg.

Right Hand: Attacks normally - Roll 17 or less to hit
Left Hand: 2 Rapid Strikes - Roll 2 times for 11 or less

Is above example allowed or forbidden?

Thanks!

Onkl

Rapid Strike and Dual Weapon Attack are explicitly incompatible.

[Onkl]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Rapid Strike and Dual Weapon Attack are explicitly incompatible.

Could you please tell me the page where I can find the description of the incompatibility, I own Basic Set, Martial Arts...

[Jasonft]

I'm interested in this one myself. Fantasy China campaign I was in until Feb I was the party tank and was doing pretty much exactly the trick described above. If I was breaking a hard set rule I would like to know.

Of course I did have Weapon Master, but it was more or less the same trick. I thought I was fine so long as only one of the weapons/ hands was affected by the Rapid Strike.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Onkl

Could you please tell me the page where I can find the description of the incompatibility, I own Basic Set, Martial Arts...

Look up martial arts p127

Once per All-Out Attack, Attack, Committed Attack,
Defensive Attack, or Move and Attack maneuver, a fighter
who desires more attacks may trade one (and only one) of his
attacks for one of these special options:

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Jasonft

I'm interested in this one myself. Fantasy China campaign I was in until Feb I was the party tank and was doing pretty much exactly the trick described above. If I was breaking a hard set rule I would like to know.

Of course I did have Weapon Master, but it was more or less the same trick. I thought I was fine so long as only one of the weapons/ hands was affected by the Rapid Strike.

Only if you use extra attack. Dual weapon attack is explicitly forbidden from being combined with a rapid strike.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

Only if you use extra attack. Dual weapon attack is explicitly forbidden from being combined with a rapid strike.

or AoA: Double... but the combining of the two is covered in detail in the FAQ

[SuedodeuS]

While ordinarily forbidden, the rules in Martial Arts for Combinations allow a third attack to be combined with Dual Weapon Attack, for a total penalty of -9. Thus, it may be appropriate to allow someone using DWA to include a rapid strike, but the additional penalty is -5 and applies to all attacks.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

While ordinarily forbidden, the rules in Martial Arts for Combinations allow a third attack to be combined with Dual Weapon Attack, for a total penalty of -9. Thus, it may be appropriate to allow someone using DWA to include a rapid strike, but the additional penalty is -5 and applies to all attacks.

A two-handed combination is not the same as a Dual Weapon Attack. DWA gives the defender as defense penalty and has a different to hit penalty system.

That they are different is made clear on MA109: "Martial artists can learn a class of multiple-attack techniques called "combinations" (p.80). These constitute a special case of Rapid Strike.... Regardless of skill or speed, a fighter can use only one combination per maneuver. If he does, he can't execute a Rapid strike or Dual-Weapon Attack as part of the same maneuver. For more on the interaction between rules that let a warrior use a single maneuver to attack more than once, see Multiple Attacks (pp126-128)"

And of course that section also points out you can't combine DWA with Rapid Strikes.

DWA & Rapid Strikes are different kettles of fish. DWA is limited to two attacks ever. But you don't have to burn fp, and you can get your DWA to equal your weapon skill, and you get to put a defense penalty on your opponent. Rapid Strike can get you multiple attackes (if you use that optional rule--and in our Arena game we've seen people pull off 5 and 6 attack Rapid Strikes), but there is a to-hit penalty that can't be bought off with a technique only mitigated by Weapon Master/TBaM and burning fp.

The two are balanced against each other, but combining them removes the game balance.

[Onkl]

Thank you very much for your explanations!