[DF] Why not have some pure "bad guy" races in DF?

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by b-dog

Maybe the goblinoid races are like the Chtorr who destroy the natural environment by turning it into a world unfit for other races. Or maybe they are like the force of chaos where if they dominate then the world becomes unlivable. But in any case they were evil to begin with.

Just because the demons aren't "True Evil" doesn't mean they aren't going to brutally murder you... They've just got a reason, and they probably aren't interested in discussing their situation or cause.

That said, fodder creatures and evil demon overlords have their place, especially in DF, but they are just an opponent to rid yourself of. More comparable to a fighting a natural disaster than a human at times. (or "Force of Nature")

When someone is planning to summon an evil entity I would focus the plot on the summoner. When an evil entity is present I'd focus on the (traitorous) cultist leader. When numerous groups of heroes(?) are heeding the call against a force of evil I'd focus on other groups.
Great Evils are (be they numerous evil creatures or a single powerful entity) are fine as the plot hook and final boss, but as far as roleplaying and storytelling goes they are mostly just hazards or road bumps.

In my humble opinion that is ;)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I have been thinking about the old school D&D and how they had bad guy races such ogres, trolls, gnolls, trolls, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins etc. These races were nasty and evil on the whole; although there were exceptions who were not eviland possibly even good.

I have trouble believing DF doesn't already have races like that.

[Xplo]

Y'all are a bunch of sissies.

How can I have the heart to kill goblin babies? Same way I have the heart to kill cockroaches. Same method works, too: stomp until their gooey green guts spurt out. Or use fire to burn out a whole nest at once. Easy. Keeps 'em from multiplying, too. I suppose next you're going to tell me "oh, dragons have feelings too, maybe we should let them destroy the encroaching human village" and "hunting is cruel, real heroes forage for roots and grubs".

If you want a whiny game full of bleeding heart priests and paladins defending the rights of monstrous humanoids, then you oughta run straight fantasy, not "kill and loot, yeehaw" DF.

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by Xplo

Y'all are a bunch of sissies.

How can I have the heart to kill goblin babies? Same way I have the heart to kill cockroaches. Same method works, too: stomp until their gooey green guts spurt out. Or use fire to burn out a whole nest at once. Easy. Keeps 'em from multiplying, too. I suppose next you're going to tell me "oh, dragons have feelings too, maybe we should let them destroy the encroaching human village" and "hunting is cruel, real heroes forage for roots and grubs".

If you want a whiny game full of bleeding heart priests and paladins defending the rights of monstrous humanoids, then you oughta run straight fantasy, not "kill and loot, yeehaw" DF.

Hehe, kind of agree, though I appreciate characters who run into moral issues like that if we're playing a more roleplaying-tinted DF.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by RedMattis

That said, fodder creatures and evil demon overlords have their place, especially in DF, but they are just an opponent to rid yourself of. More comparable to a fighting a natural disaster than a human at times. (or "Force of Nature")

That is exactly right, hoards of goblin-kin, ogres, trolls and the like are a force of nature and evil clerics and wizards gather huge numbers of them to inflict disaster on the surrounding lands. Left to themselves they will fight among themselves and fill the lands with lawlessness and chaos.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Xplo

Y'all are a bunch of sissies.

How can I have the heart to kill goblin babies? Same way I have the heart to kill cockroaches..

My goblins don't HAVE babies. They have spawn. I absolutely loathe the cliche of walking into the nursery full of "evil" babies and "evil" desperate mothers making a last ditch stand. It's nonsense. An Always Chaotic Evil species is alien to human psychology, and that means they are also alien to human developmental biology. The natural world is full of creatures that are not in fact born helpless and requiring years of devoted nurturing and education. "They're cute when they're little" does not in fact apply to reptiles or bugs.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by b-dog

That is exactly right, hoards of goblin-kin, ogres, trolls and the like are a force of nature and evil clerics and wizards gather huge numbers of them to inflict disaster on the surrounding lands.

Warriors raiding the settlements along the coasts of Europe were considered almost a force of nature by the locals. From the point of view of the Norsemen, they were an adventuring party.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by b-dog

... so why not have some that are just a bad guy race?

Because nobody's written the supplement yet?

[lexington]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

An Always Chaotic Evil species is alien to human psychology, and that means they are also alien to human developmental biology.

No it doesn't. A group of people on the other side of the world could be fundamentally alien to me on a cultural level but that doesn't mean they must spawn from eggs. The only argument you need to give goblins different development biology is just that... they're goblins, they aren't human.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by lexington

No it doesn't. A group of people on the other side of the world could be fundamentally alien to me on a cultural level

"On a cultural level" is not "fundamentally alien". Those groups of people on the other side of the world could be changed with education, commerce, missionary work, adoption if nothing else.