[MA] Spinning Attack and Rapid Strike

[gmjasongurps]

Can you combine Spinning Attack with Rapid Strike?

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by gmjasongurps

Can you combine Spinning Attack with Rapid Strike?

Sure, but it's probably not a great idea unless you're insanely skilled because the -6 rapid strike penalty will affect the built-in feint effect and possibly blow back on you with a huge bonus to defense against both hits that nerfs the whole thing.

[gmjasongurps]

but if you use it as a Flurry of Blows then it is reduced to -3 with the expenditure of some FP, making it not that out there. im just trying to build a Trademark Move for a player who really wants to use the Spinning Attack.

Second question is, would BOTH Rapid Strikes benefit from the Spinning Attack?

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by gmjasongurps

but if you use it as a Flurry of Blows then it is reduced to -3 with the expenditure of some FP, making it not that out there. im just trying to build a Trademark Move for a player who really wants to use the Spinning Attack.

It can be viable, sure. Trained by a Master will help, too, if it's that sort of campaign. What you really want to do to make it a "trademark move" is let him buy the Technique Mastery (Spinning Attack) Perk for 1 point and invest 4 more points beyond what he was spending to raise Spinning Attack to Favorite Skill +0 to raise it to Favorite Skill +4, pimping that one move out for a total additional investment of 5.

Originally Posted by gmjasongurps

Second question is, would BOTH Rapid Strikes benefit from the Spinning Attack?

You don't have to do the same move with both (unless you bought it as a fixed Combination that way), but you can. You may as well go for a second Spinning Attack or something else that requires a Committed or All-Out Attack if you're giving up your defenses anyway.

[bea_bumble]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

You don't have to do the same move with both (unless you bought it as a fixed Combination that way), but you can. You may as well go for a second Spinning Attack or something else that requires a Committed or All-Out Attack if you're giving up your defenses anyway.

Is this really how this works? The Spinning Attack description sounds to me like it is not an attack that requires a Committed Attack or All-Out Attack maneuver so much as an attack that completely replaces the rules of those maneuvers (for example, increasing the defense penalty on a Committed Attack). Should Spinning Attack be an option for any attack made during a CA or AOA maneuver?

You couldn't, for example, do an AOA(Double) with a spinning attack, since Spinning Attack replaces the rules for AOA... So I'm hesitant to allow a spinning attack as a rapid strike.

[vicky_molokh]

RS is not the same thing as AoA, so technically it's combinable.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by bea_bumble

Is this really how this works? [snip]

You couldn't, for example, do an AOA(Double) with a spinning attack, since Spinning Attack replaces the rules for AOA... So I'm hesitant to allow a spinning attack as a rapid strike.

Originally Posted by Molokh

RS is not the same thing as AoA, so technically it's combinable.

What he said. Normally you can do a Rapid Strike with one half of an AoA (Double) (for a total of 3 attacks in your turn). AoA (Double) isn't an option with the alt-AoA rules used with Spinning Attack (which do replace the regular AoA rules; the full range of options are not available), but it doesn't say anything about disallowing Rapid Strike.

If you're doing your Spinning Attack with Karate, and buying the general skill up really high for versatility instead of doing a Technique Mastery, one rapid strike pairing that you may want to look at is Axe Kick + Spinning Attack. An Axe Kick to the Torso turns into a hit to the Leg if the victim's defense succeeds by the Retreat bonus margin, and gives a -1 to the victim's Parries until his next turn whether he defends successfully or not (on top of the -4 or -2 that he might be taking for a second Parry depending on his skills and advantages, and whatever penalty he ends up taking for the Spinning Attack, if any)... If you're sinking a lot of points into Spinning Attack or using a skill besides Karate, your best bet is probably just a pair of those.

[aesir23]

Many real world (and film) moves would be a rapid strike where one of the moves was a spinning attack, like the spinning heel kick followed by a snap kick in the opposite direction, or a spinning back-fist followed by a round house punch.

Dangerous and stupid, often, but no reason to forbid it.

[bea_bumble]

Thanks, that makes more sense to me, now. Some further thoughts:

Must one roll against spinning attack rather than against raw weapon skill for all attacks made during a spinning attack? I feel like one should, since the spinning should probably make all attacks more difficult (or easier, should you happen to have bought technique mastery for this...). Similarly, I would assume that the roll to penalize your opponent's defenses applies to all attacks made during the maneuver, since it is the spin itself that throws them off-guard.

For example, say I combine a spinning attack with Dual-Weapon Attack... I have two kinds of weapons, say a sword and an axe, and only the spinning attack technique with the axe. I roll, and penalize my opponent's defenses by -2. My opponent takes an additional -2 defense penalty on both attacks, but I must roll against the spinning attack default for the sword... Because it is difficult to target with a sword after spinning if I have not practiced doing so!

At least, I think that is how I would rule it, but I'm not completely sure. What does everyone else think?

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by bea_bumble

Must one roll against spinning attack rather than against raw weapon skill for all attacks made during a spinning attack? I feel like one should, since the spinning should probably make all attacks more difficult (or easier, should you happen to have bought technique mastery for this...). Similarly, I would assume that the roll to penalize your opponent's defenses applies to all attacks made during the maneuver, since it is the spin itself that throws them off-guard.

No, I don't think that's necessarily the case. The spin catches the opponent off-guard for the spinning attack, but not necessarily for the follow up (although the second attack could be penalized by being the second parry in a turn, or if the first attack landed a hit).

In the opposite case, a Rapid Strike where the spinning attack is the Second attack, it makes no sense whatsoever to use spinning attack and it's bonuses/penalties for both attacks.

Also, it should be possible to launch a rapid strike that is two spinning attacks. These should be treated differently from a spinning attack and a regular attack to represent the greater risk that such an attack would pose.