Alternatives to Dependancy: Mana

[Darekun]

Well, it may be useful to look at what's going on here. Why are they dependent on mana? What are they dependent on mana for? If you set aside the rules and thought-experiment a unicorn and a pixie in a no-mana area, what should happen?

For a unicorn, it would be straightforward for all the abilities that differentiate them from a horse, except for having a horn, to fade. (Which is why I picked unicorn.) In low-mana areas, they may be reduced proportionally. So as one moves deeper into an "anti-magic basin", it gets dumber, it loses Basic Move boosts, until eventually it's just a slightly-spiky horse.

For a pixie, it's a little harder. IQ eventually reducing to a level appropriate to their size? Ouch. And how fast does Flight drop off? At what mana level do the thermodynamic square/cube problems become lethal? Of course, that means that a pixie's disadvantage may be sufficiently exercised in low-mana areas.

Finally, it's possible that handling it "well" will necessarily be unplayable for some races. Many RPGs ban pixie PCs on the grounds that their low strength alone is such an unplayable weakness. In that case, lesser reductions would be a playable abstraction.

[Kuroshima]

Personally, I had some success adding the Fatigue Only -50% to mana dependency (This modifier was stolen from Weakness, but has been canonized in Thaumatology under Spirit warriors) for High/Blood elves in my Azeroth campaign (The exact build was Dependency (Very High mana (Such as the emanations of the sunwell), Rare, Seasonally; Fatigue Only -50%; Cosmic, can not recover the FP naturally, +50%) [-10]. Paut was available, and restored the lost FP. It worked rather well. The net result is that elves had to visit the Sunwell, or similar places of power, making exile nearly akin to death sentence, unless one had the funds to drink a bottle of paut a day. Elves away from their homeland were letargic, and could quickly en up falling into a sleep that could only be broken via Lend Energy, that ended in death, and Lend Energy could only bring them back to 1 FP.)

I would have taken a similar route for the faerie races for DF, personally.

[raven_walker]

Originally Posted by Bruno

All the fae races in DF have Constant Dependancy mana. In mana levels above "none", fae characters notice no effect, and in No Mana areas they take 1 hp per minute starting 60 seconds after exposure and continuing until they escape. This knocks -25 points off of all the fae templates.

For pixies, especially, this means that most of the time mana doesn't matter, until they hit a no-mana area and then they're incapacitated with a major wound, and are at risk of death. This makes me, as a GM, extremely reluctant to use no-mana areas if a game involves pixies - but with all fae races there's the pressure to include no mana zones, or that expensive disad is just a pile of free points.

I tend to think of it in relation to Dependancy: Air (the reverse of Doesn't Breathe) for normal humans. (But I think many of the "environmental" and "metabolic" ads/disads like these could (possibly should) be combined into a broader "Native Environment" template with ads/disads to modify the base.

Frex: Magical beings might replace breathing with mana, eating with some alternate form of consumption, metabolic hazards with an alternate set, etc. (More limited or expansive needs than the "human norm" would then modify the base with ads or disads.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Some options I'm tossing around are disadvantages or attribute penalties with Accessability (Only in Mana levels below X), possibly combined with an option to buy Mitigator on the disadvantages (or even the original Dependancy) allowing the a fae to use a Power Item as a "reserve" of mana to stave off penalties or damage.

On the flip side of the equation, I would allow all fae races to buy (as Power Ups) one or more of a set of advantages with Accessability (Only in Mana levels above X) - Fit or Very Fit, Attribute bonuses, Energy Reserve, etc.

Remove the Constant Dependency Mana, then go through and tweak their stats so as to only be available at different mana levels.

As an example:

Base DX 3 at No Mana. [-140]
DX 6 at Low Mana -6, -40%. [36]
DX 9 at Low Mana -3, -20%. [48]
DX 12 at Normal Mana, 0. [60]
DX 15 at High Mana +3, -20%. [48]
DX 18 at High Mana +6, -40%. [36]
Total Cost: [88]

[Bruno]

I was hoping to come up with a general metatrait replacement costing approximately the same amount (because that's easier as a GM :D), but I think a per-template customization is probably going to produce the most pleasing results.

Starting with pixies, as the most obvious and problematic case:

They weigh about twice as much as they should for their size and proportions, and are strong out of all proportion to size and weight. I don't think their flight is particularly magically powered - although the strength driving their flight almost certainly is. Not that ST 5 is particularly amazing, but it appears to be a "super power". Disproportionate strength has always been a faerie thing. Reduced Consumption is also obviously magical, but since mana levels will be changing multiple times a day, I will NOT be making it mana sensitive - the book-keeping nightmares involved are not worth it.

So, No Mana: 1 HP, 1 ST, 8 DX, 8 IQ Will and Per.
Low Mana -6: 1 HP, ST 3, 9 DX, 9 IQ, 8 Per and Will, Flight.
Low Mana -3: 1 HP, ST 4, 11 DX, 9 IQ Will and Per, Flight.
Normal Mana or better: 1 HP, ST 5, 13 DX, 10 IQ, Enhanded Dodge +1, Flight.

Optional Powerup Packages
High Mana +3: 1 HP, ST 6, 14 DX, Flight.
and then
High Mana +6: 1 HP, ST 7, 15 DX, Flight.

And optional Enhanced Flight Move and Enhanded Dodge, only at higher mana levels as other Power Ups.

I could use some confirmation here, but I'm thinking that the template should start with No Mana as the baseline, and buy up everything with Accessability limitations from there.

Because Low Mana -6 or Better will be roughly 97% of the time, the adjustments at Low Mana have no significant discount according to Powers. I might levee a -1% limitation value for the inconvenience of book-keeping, but there's not enough points involved for the PC to recoup even a single point from it, so it's mostly abstract.

So baseline, ST -9 [-90 points], DX -2 [-40], -2 IQ [-40] no Flight.

Low Mana -6 or better: +2 Striking and Lifting ST [16], +1 DX [20], +1 IQ -1 Per and Will [10] Flight (Winged, -25%) [30]

Low Mana -3 or better: +1 Striking and Lifting ST (Low -3 or better, -5%) [7.6], +2 DX (Low -3 or better, -5%) [38], +1 IQ -1 to Will (Low -3 or better, -5%) [14.25]

Normal or better: +1 Striking and Lifting ST (Normal or better, -15%) [6.8], +2 DX (Normal or better, -15%) [34], +1 IQ (Normal or better, -15%) [17], Enhanced Dodge (Normal or better, -15%) [12.75]

Which nets to 37 points.

Comparing to +3 DX, -5 ST, -4 HP, Enhanced Dodge 1, and Flight all the time, and Dependancy, which is also a 37 point package.

+1 Striking and Lifting ST (High +3 or better, -25%) [6], +1 DX (High +3 or better, -25%) [15] is a 21 point metatrait.

The next level of Power Up would be +1 Striking and Lifting ST (High +6 or better, -35%) [5.2], +1 DX (High +6 or better, -35%), [13], 19 points.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I could use some confirmation here, but I'm thinking that the template should start with No Mana as the baseline, and buy up everything with Accessability limitations from there.

Yep, the base would be the No Mana.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Because Low Mana -6 or Better will be roughly 97% of the time, the adjustments at Low Mana have no significant discount according to Powers. I might levee a -1% limitation value for the inconvenience of book-keeping, but there's not enough points involved for the PC to recoup even a single point from it, so it's mostly abstract.

I think you're seriously shortchanging how nasty this is as a level of disad there, but you should include in your numbers at least the -10% for Magic...

[Harald387]

In general:

Anything that will result in on-the-fly recalculation of skill levels or encumbrance levels (especially encumbrance!) should be avoided like the plague. If a character's basic attributes are going up and down with the mana levels, you're going to end up wanting one character sheet for each possible mana level, and that's an insane amount of bookkeeping.

I think the fae templates are probably good enough on their own that they can afford to have their point cost increased; sticking with 'they must have -25 points in disadvantages' is probably hampering, and we ultimately want things to be simple - my eyes glaze over TOTALLY when dealing with staggered levels of disadvantage like the ones outlined upthread.

My recommendation would be to find something in the 5-15 point range that seems suitable, and to apply that instead of the -25 Dependency, raising the template costs appropriately. I'd also recommend tweaking pixies to be a bit more viable in a DF setting, but that's another topic entirely.

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

In a setting where mana is as common as air, is Dependency: Mana merely a feature, like Dependency: Air?

What about Restricted Diet: Mana instead of Food and Water in a setting where mana is as common as air? I'm thinking Doesn't Eat or Drink plus Restricted Diet (trivially common, -1).

[younglorax]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Other mana levels are extremely rare (-40% Accessability)

Maybe this is discussed in Powers, but I think it's wrong to add Accessibility limitations as written to disadvantages:

If an advantage only comes in handy very rarely, you remove less than half the cost -- since you'll actively seek out that situation. So, if a disadvantage only comes into play very rarely, you should probably remove more than half the cost -- since you'll actively avoid that situation.

[Bruno]

Ouf. That's a good point. And Harald has a good point about the usability - I've got a programmers usual eye for usability ( Paul Southworth understands ) so sometimes I need to be reminded of such things...

I'll sit and think about it!