Dodging bullets

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Langy

Shouldn't it be easier to dodge a bullet fired from up close as opposed to a bullet fired a dozen or hundred yards away?

Well, yes and no. Basically, the way dodging works vs bullets is that the aim-fire cycle takes a certain amount of time, so if you can move by your body width in less than that amount of time, you'll be able to dodge. Since bullets have non-zero time of flight, long range increases the time you have available to dodge.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

This is my opinion, and having un untrained shooter miss someone who rushes them doesn't fail my reality check.

Thank you for your opinion. And I do not disagree with you regarding an untrained shooter.

But the rules make it likely that a trained shooter who has aimed at a nearby stationary target that then decided to rush him will miss because the target dodged. This seems unrealistic to me.

It is looking like the simple answer is, "Feverish Defense against ranged attacks is a highly cinematic option and should not be permitted in realistic campaigns." Add to this the MA123 rules and an Aim/Wait combination option and guns become scary again.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Edges

It is looking like the simple answer is, "Feverish Defense against ranged attacks is a highly cinematic option and should not be permitted in realistic campaigns." Add to this the MA123 rules and an Aim/Wait combination option and guns become scary again.

This is what I was saying was my opinion, yes.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

This is what I was saying was my opinion, yes.

Cool. And if I've followed things right, you have some professional experience with firearms (i.e. professional opinion).

This is good enough for me.

What is your opinion on Icelander's house rule that at mêlée range, firearms can benefit from mêlée AoA (determined) and Telegraphic Attack?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Edges

A basic "action" scenario is a guy pointing a gun at someone and having a talk. A couple of players at our table have decided that based on the rules, if someone has a gun trained on you and is only a few yards away, the best thing to do is charge them. It sounds strange but using AoD (Dodge) and Feverish Defense, they can usually get to the shooter and attack without getting hit (high RoF not withstanding).

Isn't this exactly what happens in real life?

Originally Posted by Edges

In another thread, Icelander indicated that Kromm allows Aim and Wait to be taken in a single turn (i.e. not requiring two turns to set up an aimed Wait).

The rules already allow it, see Opportunity Fire . As long as your target is a single hex, you may Aim while Waiting.

[Langy]

Feverish Defense against ranged attacks is a highly cinematic option and should not be permitted in realistic campaigns

Feverish Defense is listed as a highly cinematic option in all cases, not just against ranged attacks.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Langy

Feverish Defense is listed as a highly cinematic option in all cases, not just against ranged attacks.

QFT, this is true of all the "Extra Effort in Combat" options.

[Langy]

I'd also like to point out it isn't just my opinion that ranged deceptive attacks are relatively realistic - it's specifically mentioned in Martial Arts, page 121, where Prediction Shots and Ranged Feints are described.

Feints and Deceptive Attacks needn’t be limited to melee combat. The optional rules below let warriors who specialize in Bow, Throwing Art, and so forth compete on an equal footing with hand-to-hand experts, if the GM wishes. This might be realistic...

This is in contrast with feverish defense, which is never realistic.

[sir_pudding]

In my semi-pro opinion Predictive Shots are entirely realistic for firearms. Otherwise what does training to hit moving targets actually represent; Speed Modifiers usually don't apply to targets like humans (or Ivans-on-stick for that matter).

[teviet]

Realistically, dodge should depend on your acceleration (as given by Basic Speed), your size, and an effective time to react. While trying to scale Dodge to non-human scales, I came up with a clunky HR for this: Your Basic Speed (HT+DX)/4 is actually a speed modifier; look up Basic Speed - 3 on the Size & Speed/Range table to get your acceleration.

Basic Speed + 3 is still your base Dodge, but it now has two extra situational modifiers. One is the negative of the target size modifier: normally 0 for humans, but a bonus to Dodge if the attacker is targeting a hit location (yes, if he's trying to hit your eyes it's harder for him to hit and easier for you to dodge), or a penalty to Dodge if the attacker is using an area or cone attack.

The other modifier is a reaction time modifier: normally zero, unless the attack takes more than about 1/4 second to reach you, in which case you get a bonus of 2*(projectile speed modifier - range modifier + 3); note that I'm assuming that higher speeds and longer ranges result in lower (more negative) modifiers, as listed on the S&S/R table. This bonus is not cumulative with Combat Reflexes.

As I said, it's pretty clunky, but it scaled reasonably well to larger-scale (vehicular) combat, which is what I needed it for.

Note that being able to see the attacker or the incoming projectile is less important than simply knowing you're under attack and moving evasively. If a sniper's shot takes 2 seconds to reach a human-size target, and the person is moving unpredictably, then an aimed shot is only going to hit by random chance regardless of the sniper's skill: you basically have to fill the possible target area with bullets and hope that one actually lands on the target.

TeV