MA: Telegraphic, Committed with a pistol?

[ham2anv]

Originally Posted by Icelander

And what if his action is Fast-Talk or another Influence skill? He's trying to beg for his life, but if he notices that the gunman is going to shoot anyway, you wouldn't allow him to try to Dodge?

If he has any way of knowing when the shot will come, certainly. If not, then no, I wouldn't. In such a case, rolling out of the way would be an active maneuver (Move or the step portion of another maneuver that allows a step), initiating combat.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Icelander

What if he's a PC?

And is hoping to Dodge at the last time?

Well, won't he be surprised.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by ham2anv

If he has any way of knowing when the shot will come, certainly. If not, then no, I wouldn't. In such a case, rolling out of the way would be an active maneuver (Move or the step portion of another maneuver that allows a step), initiating combat.

Well, of course the first step would be trying to predict when the shot will come.

Danger Sense springs to mind. PCs tend to have that. And if the PCs is a social engineer, he might have Acting at high enough level to pretend to be cringing while begging for his life, but actually be keeping his peripheral vision on the gunman.

[Azinctus]

I think Icelander is right that there could be a situation in which a PC might use a Dodge roll to avoid an execution type shooting (thus making the Telegraphic attack a possibility for the shooter). In the movie True Lies Schwarzenegger using a spycam to observe his enemy putting a gun to his head. Then he snaps his aside at the last second and his enemy shoots the wall.

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

I wouldn't roll for an execution shot if it gets to that point. If you absolutely had to, I'd give it the +4 for non-combat shooting (There's no combat going on, you don't even have any reason to believe there would be fighting going on). Add in the pistol's accuracy for a quick second of one-handed aim, and an all-out attack (Again, no combat going on), and that makes it skill+2 to execute a prisoner in the back of the skull, or skill+4 to shoot them in the vitals. Add another +1 if the shooter is smart enough (Or forsakes style enough) to use both hands on the pistol to brace it.

In the True Lies example would you have Schwarzenegger roll a dodge?

In a melee would you let me use Telegraphic attack to hold off firing till my pistol was touching my enemies face?

[ham2anv]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Danger Sense springs to mind. PCs tend to have that.

Hardly. PCs may have Danger Sense. If they did, I would allow a Dodge, but probably still at the -2. I would still encourage my player to act before then, though.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by ham2anv

Hardly. PCs may have Danger Sense. If they did, I would allow a Dodge, but probably still at the -2. I would still encourage my player to act before then, though.

But the PC, in all cases, would probably be 'acting'. It's just that not all actions are attacks.

For a lot of PC types, it doesn't make sense that they'd be able to jump a gunman and disarm him safely. These PCs may still be able to act, in that they'd use social skills to dely the execution, to try to convince him to not go through with it and instead come to an agreement, etc.

But if all that fails, it's nice to have consistent and plausible rules to resolve events once the shooter decides to pull the trigger. And I'd like those rules to provide for the difference between the confident military type Henchman who shoots without warning and without gettting close enough to risk being grappled and the Evil, but Untrained Scientist who is forced to put the barrel right on the character's head to be sure of hitting in the right spot.

It's easier to Dodge the latter. Hence, Telegraphic Attack mechanisms.

[ham2anv]

Originally Posted by Icelander

But if all that fails, it's nice to have consistent and plausible rules to resolve events once the shooter decides to pull the trigger. And I'd like those rules to provide for the difference between the confident military type Henchman who shoots without warning and without gettting close enough to risk being grappled and the Evil, but Untrained Scientist who is forced to put the barrel right on the character's head to be sure of hitting in the right spot.

It's easier to Dodge the latter. Hence, Telegraphic Attack mechanisms.

Agreed. If the character has some way of knowing when the attack will come (Peripheral Vision, Danger Sense, can see the gunman in a mirror or video feed, etc.), and the gun is in contact with him, it's reasonable to use the rule for Telegraphic Attack, giving the shooter a bonus to hit and the prisoner a bonus to Dodge.

[aesir23]

I'm not sure if anybody has brought this up yet, but allowing Telegraphic Attacks with ranged weapons only makes sense in campaigns that use Predictive Shooting.

[EDIT] to clarify, if it's possible to line up your shot in an obvious way that improves accuracy at the expense of alerting your opponent to where and when you're shooting, than it should also be possible to shoot in a way that make it less obvious where and when you are shooting at the expense of not being able to line your shot up as accurately. Allowing one without the other feels wrong to me.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

They could always roll bad on damage

There is this factor, too, in both fiction and real life, so arguably it should be a possible factor in the game as well, rather than simply declaring a character (especially a PC) dead.

Denny O'Neil's revival of the Question in the 80s starts off with the titular character being shot in the head execution style (albeit with a small caliber, or even a pellet gun), then dumped in a river. He survives, it's explained later, in part because the projectile didn't penetrate the skull but traveled under the skin to its exit point. O'Neil claimed this was based on a real-life incident, although I never saw any confirmation of that, but I do know there are real cases of .22 handgun rounds failing to penetrate the skull.

So, even if a character doesn't manage to dodge a round to the back of the head, it's conceivable that said character would survive.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

There is this factor, too, in both fiction and real life, so arguably it should be a possible factor in the game as well, rather than simply declaring a character (especially a PC) dead.

Denny O'Neil's revival of the Question in the 80s starts off with the titular character being shot in the head execution style (albeit with a small caliber, or even a pellet gun), then dumped in a river. He survives...

This narrative device is also employed in the 2008 movie The Take starring John Leguizamo, Tyrese Gibson, Bobby Cannavale, and Rosie Perez.