Soldierly Honesty (and spies)

[Figleaf23]

Basically, Honest people couldn't work in law enforcement in many many parts of the world today.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Basically, Honest people couldn't work in law enforcement in many many parts of the world today.

What does that mean?

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

What does [Honest people couldn't work in law enforcement in many many parts of the world today] that mean?

Like the KGB, practices in law enforcement bureaus in many places fall far short of the stipulations of the law.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Like the KGB, practices in law enforcement bureaus in many places fall far short of the stipulations of the law.

It's why I couldn't watch the program, "Cops". The level of everday breaking of "trivial" laws by the cops was painful. If that's what they do on camera, I can see why so many don't trust stranger cops.
My dad may have had gurps honesty. It sure didn't help him rise in the ranks though.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Like the KGB, practices in law enforcement bureaus in many places fall far short of the stipulations of the law.

That's mostly because they can get away with it, not because its mandatory. Most people aren't Honest, and that includes most police officers.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That's mostly because they can get away with it, not because its mandatory. Most people aren't Honest, and that includes most police officers.

When the boss says it's necessary for the mission, and threatens to terminate your career [read: kill you to prevent further disclosure of governmental secrets) if you do not do it, it turns pretty much mandatory.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Molokh

When the boss says it's necessary for the mission, and threatens to terminate your career [read: kill you to prevent further disclosure of governmental secrets) if you do not do it, it turns pretty much mandatory.

It doesn't even have to be so overtly dire.
A "things just work differently in the real world" probably allows most illegal acts by most people in most situations. Horribly enough, in some cases, it's even true.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Molokh

When the boss says it's necessary for the mission, and threatens to terminate your career [read: kill you to prevent further disclosure of governmental secrets) if you do not do it, it turns pretty much mandatory.

Most police agencies even in corrupt polities do not in fact work that way. Being Honest may make it unlikely that you'll get promoted, and may make your work more dangerous, but it is still usually more about what you are allowed to do than what you must do. Suppose for example that you were a city cop in Moscow, then or now. Your boss isn't going to kill you for not beating confessions out of suspects. But your clearance rate might not be very good so you can forget getting promoted.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Most police agencies even in corrupt polities do not in fact work that way. Being Honest may make it unlikely that you'll get promoted, and may make your work more dangerous, but it is still usually more about what you are allowed to do than what you must do. Suppose for example that you were a city cop in Moscow, then or now. Your boss isn't going to kill you for not beating confessions out of suspects. But your clearance rate might not be very good so you can forget getting promoted.

If I'm a KGB worker, sure he will.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Most police agencies even in corrupt polities do not in fact work that way. Being Honest may make it unlikely that you'll get promoted, and may make your work more dangerous, but it is still usually more about what you are allowed to do than what you must do.

Forgive me, but I find that unconvincing, unsupported, and a mismatch with personal experience even in a 'free and democratic' society. In reality, in places where the rule is to ignore or break the rules, you toe the line or you're not welcome.

Suppose for example that you were a city cop in Moscow, then or now. Your boss isn't going to kill you for not beating confessions out of suspects. But your clearance rate might not be very good so you can forget getting promoted.

When your buddies are all cracking heads and breaking the law, and you're an Honest cop, what is your formal duty? And what do you really do?