Ensuring post-apocalyptic survival at TL8?

[Agramer]

Originally Posted by riprock

Allow me to roll out my insanely huge collection of DIY insanity.

What is DIY?

Originally Posted by riprock

I've got a lot of posting to do.

Ill start with :

"Phuuuuh" and continue with "Aaaahhhhhh" lol

I started reading at 09:00 and after following your links and links of links and watching several videos it is now 14:52 h...

One more lol haha :d


1) I would like to thank you for that info.It was very,very interesting read(specially links onto links) and I learned a lot today :))

2)

Originally Posted by riprock

I don't believe you have a realistic notion of how knowledge gets passed on and how skills get maintained.

A skill that is practiced is remembered by its practitioner;
a skill that is practiced in a small community tends to get passed on within the community.

Modern education often serves as soul-destroying busywork that obstructs skill transmission.

Do you disagree?

Even if I agreed on passing very specialised knowledge from one person to next...which as efficient educational model I dont,since sooner or later youll have "bad teacher"/"non interested student" case or case of student without aptitude for that line of work(someone with deficiency in math in high tech field) when all that high tech knowledge will go down the drain.

More important is basic nature of Universities as institutions.You dont learn "What you will need to know" .... thats what technicians learn/do. What you learn ,as engineer...etc, is "What you may need to know" which makes tremendous difference in base of knowledge,implementation of same and multidisciplinary application /cooperation of same.

What I do agree on is that modern education model is in desperate need of change from mostly "rote learning" and stuff that it still didnt surpass.But thats irrelevant for our discussion.

3)

Originally Posted by Agramer

Originally Posted by Agramer View Post
When spare parts run out who will produce new ones and how?

Originally Posted by riprock

The Gingery method was detailed in my previous post. Gingery was one real-life person who built a ridiculously complete machine shop. His methods are widely studied - but apparently not by everyone.

I was referring to very specialised spare parts,not something you can build in good machine shop but something you need specialised high tech factory to make,since we do assume that such community would have top of the line machine shops.

4)

Originally Posted by riprock

I have already claimed that each household can produce abundant food with minimal work. Apparently you wish to contest some part of that claim, but we haven't gotten down to specifics for some reason.

Large industrial Agriculture is much more efficient that family based agriculture. Im not disputing that with some profound thought agricultures labour man-hours can be cut down tremendously,but it still doesnt change fact that modern world has tendency toward specialisation which leads to efficiency(Real world is full of imperfections so no need to dispute this,since it isnt working exactly like that even in todays world,although it should).

5)
[QUOTE =Agramer]How many little things do you think constitute overall TL?[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by riprock

Your rhetoric is ambiguous. Are you implying that everyone else on this thread has a complete, itemized list of TL details, but I don't? Are you implying that the number of little things is incalculably vast?

Not rhetoric,just my subjective impression that number is really vast,dont have clue what that number would/should be,but if I start using terms as "quality of life","way of life","ease of living" which are ambigous it gets complicated.
So no,I dont have clue how much of those 2little things" is needed to preserve <i>fully</i> targeted TL but number must be very high.

6)

Originally Posted by riprock

Let's leave that to the side and return to the issue of labor economics after we have a handle on the engineering feasibility of using five hundred people to build a toolset.

I have never disputed that. I disputed 500 people preserving TL in full during two generation span.

7)

Originally Posted by riprock

When you ask "How can she do all that stuff?" I'm not sure if you're stressing that it's impossible, or if you're requesting an explanation.

Im stressing that such multidisciplinary doctor of sciences is wasted resource on everyday jobs that would be in "normal world" delegated to technicians with small supervision of such expert.But that with your 500 people mark we dont have room for those technicians.

8)

On your 2nd post I mostly agree with what you say and what most of people linked said.

What I do disagree is that we will have "Replicator"(ala Star Trek) technology on TL8. Yes Rot machine is nice and will do a lot for mass produced goods and even specialised parts that could all be made at home,but still a lot of technology will be out of reach of such machine during TL8(OR it will be mamuthian mobile factory).

Originally Posted by riprock

If we can get consensus on the mechanics of that, I will further argue that skills can be preserved and transmitted without recognizable universities.

Yes,skills can ... but still Unis are what kickstarts whole process and are actual centres of "new thought"(Yes,Im aware of numerous non-University related inventors,but still most of major breakthroughs are achieved through assistance of Unis to some degree).


To summ all of above :

You presented me with very interesting read and I learned a lot of new stuff.

I fully disagree that fully functional TL8 society can be sustained with such small number of people(Im not even delving into deep sea/space programs here).


15:35 h /post :)