[DF/General] Why prepackaged adventures are good

[hoshisabi]

Originally Posted by Bruno

It generally takes 3-5x as many hints as you think it should to get the full situation across to players - never mind those days where they see one clue and jump immediately to "THE BUTLER DID IT".

I agree. That's why I made it so that they found new and better evidence every time. It feels like progress, even though what they had at the beginning was sufficient. They had fun, I think, which is important... and this little subplot gave the thief something to do that's not combat, since the barbarian continues to be the super-effective person in combat. (Though, I think I am getting the hang of how a thief should work in GURPS ... lots of shadows around the combat site, hide in shadows, attack from shadows with telegraphic all-out-attack to the vitals through chinks in armor, got it!).

In the end, though, I kind of copped out and told them, "You have plenty of evidence to take to the baron now!"

I also decided that I'll be a little cheesy and refer to certain items as "quest items" since everyone at the table is a World of Warcraft player. We joke about, "This item gives you a quest when you right click on it." I saw someone once give me some evidence about handing out cards to keep players reminding of "quests in progress" which is something I think I'll start doing. "Take the unholy dagger you recovered from the cultist to the Church", which when they do that, the church will hand them another card which says "Go here now" and so on.

That way the players have something physical to remind them of "I have this thing still left to do." Even if it might have been a few weeks since they picked it up.

Originally Posted by Kaldrin

I've never TPK'd, but I have TPK-O'd before... I've also had the odd villain offer surrender. Depends what the situation calls for.

Well, I had a moment where I realized that BEFORE when I refused to do a TPK, my party had become accustomed to the fact that I was a softball GM. No matter what they did, no one would die.

I played and ran in "Living Greyhawk" (a campaign that's part of the RPGA, basically you GM prepackaged adventures for people at small conventions), and in those you really don't have as much GM leeway. You just sort of go by what is in the adventure... and I realized, there was a lot more excitement when the big bad scary things came out to play.

So, I told my players in my regular campaigns that they may all die. I played up that fact, I made sure everyone knows "You are all in mortal danger." It was FAR more talk than real.... but there have been a poorly thought out plans over the last ten or fifteen years which have resulted in "Everyone dies, let's make new characters for next week."

It's SUPER rare, and I know my players aren't upset about it because we've been playing together for a long time, and they can see the dice on the table since I don't generally roll in secret.

TPKs are a real tough thing to pull off and keep your party happy, but the IDEA that you might kill them all is an important part of the keeping the suspense in the game.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by hoshisabi

TPKs are a real tough thing to pull off and keep your party happy, but the IDEA that you might kill them all is an important part of the keeping the suspense in the game.

Agreed. At the beginning of the climactic session of the first huge story arc of my main campaign (running at that point for about 15 years) I basically told the players "I've no idea how this is going to work out. All bets are off and I'm not pulling any punches."

You can't do that every time, but that time was the right time to lay it on the line.

What a session!

Graham

[Bruno]

I've had two TPKs in a row once. I think that was basically it in my career for player deaths at all, but at least my players know I'm trying if not succeeding.

Mind you, I wasn't actually aiming for a total party kill, but there were these ghouls, and the PCs KNEW there were ghouls, and they decided the BEST way to get rid of the ghouls was to go (without a cleric, paladin, or even holy water) into the graveyard, at night, with no lightsource other than a dull grey ioun stone with Continual Light on it (like a big flashing EAT AT JOES sign really)... and then they went and stood in the middle of the graveyard and had a loud argument.

Nobody watching for ghouls.

EDIT: The second TPK was the replacement PC party, which wasn't much better organized. They got it the third time around.

[Kaldrin]

Originally Posted by hoshisabi

Well, I had a moment where I realized that BEFORE when I refused to do a TPK, my party had become accustomed to the fact that I was a softball GM. No matter what they did, no one would die.

I have had the odd PC die, but never had everyone die. I don't doubt there are situations where everyone would die, but I've rarely had people in a group agree to do something that stupid.

[mib2932]

I've got a con scenario (one shot) that I like to use. It's kind of like the Kobayashi Maru scenario in Star Trek - it usually ends in a TPK (many times they kill each other before I can do it). It's fun to run.