[Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...

[Opellulo]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

It's more like playing a game where the relative abilities of Space Marines and guardsmen are akin to how thye preform in the game rather than the fluff. The most 40K fluff I read the more outragious it becoes, but one of the things I really like about 40K is that everything is from the perspective of a brutal fasciest theocracy and the line between propaganda and reality is blurred.

In short I think it's very much in the theme of 40K's humour to have urban legends about the power of space marines passed around, about how they have 15 hearts, the abilty to regenerate their own head and a laser wang. To expand on the fluff Games Workshop once put out a Guardsman's handbook that advised if one found themselves in front of an ork with no weapons to wave their hands in front of it's face to confuse the beast enough to make a get away. The manual also praised the effectiveness of lasguns (which are ridiculed for being effective in game terms) indicating quite clearly that the fluff was a great exaduation of the setting's reality.

In this sense I would prefference the rules over the fluff in deciding how effective everything is. A single space marine would be more than a match for a squad of Guardsmen even with this mind.

Totally agreed with that: imperial society sounds a lot like a mockery about Thatcherian GB in '80: it's an involuting society that includes both fascist and theocratic aspect for humorous purposes not for logic "functioning". I think a more precise conversion would be using the TAU as paragon: they're a society built with more modern and logical means (they got REALLY TL11 railguns and power armours) that better traslate in GURPS ultra tech terms.

A point: while the WH40K setting warfare is very detailed, almost nothing else is well known: economy, society, travel, racial interaction... As a Master i would find very hard to bring on a campaign different than a continuos tactical fight.

just my 2 cents

[KjetilKverndokken]

I would say that the best depiction of Space Marines comes from the new Horus heresy novels - written by some of the best authors of 40k and their rulewriters.
If anything I would say those books "realistically" depicts Space marines.

When it comes to economy and society it gets answered in many novels and the Dark heresy and Rogue Trader rpg's.

Economy is by trading more then the use of thrones (thats the name of the 40k cash).
Society is different from world to world so theres no problem there to use the imagination.
Travel is mostly done by the rich and influential, pilgrims and soldiers.
Race has little impact among the Imperials, but, the racial bigotry starts with mutants and psykers - those that really are different.

So 40k is actually a very easy setting to be a GM in.

But this campaign thread is based on the Siege of Vraks and is a war campaign.

[Kage2020]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

In this sense I would prefference the rules over the fluff in deciding how effective everything is.

Given how spurious those rules are, I would tend to take the opposite approach--citing the balance of the 'fluff' over that of the rules at any given time. Of course, in so doing you ultimately introduce an element of idiosyncratic interpretation. One part of that interpretation is how one approaches it--do you go for the camp, over-the-top materials that follows weird laws (Rule of Cool, character survivability is directly proportional to the size of the weapon [preferably sword], how old they are, the latest army book release, etc.), or something else? It is possible to create a viable, slightly-more-serious version of the 40k universe.

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

I think a more precise conversion would be using the TAU as paragon: they're a society built with more modern and logical means (they got REALLY TL11 railguns and power armours) that better traslate in GURPS ultra tech terms.

I originally pegged them as TL 10, but that was back in the day of GURPS 3e and I haven't really come back to their conversion in quite some time.

Originally Posted by Opellulo

A point: while the WH40K setting warfare is very detailed...

Well, the nature of war anyway--mix primarily WWI imagery with 19th-century strategy, and then throw in later 20th-century strategy to show the superior battle knowledge of Primarchs and other important leaders (all of whom have big guns and have lived for a long time). ;)

Originally Posted by Opellulo

almost nothing else is well known: economy, society, travel, racial interaction... As a Master i would find very hard to bring on a campaign different than a continuos tactical fight.

This has been one of the primary criticisms of the Dark Heresy game, i.e. it doesn't actually contain a great deal of information on the Imperium, Imperial society, etc., just a lot of smoke and mirrors. Of course, it's a popular game so it's doing something right--just perhaps not for simulationists (nyargle--GNS).

Originally Posted by KjetilKverndokken

I would say that the best depiction of Space Marines comes from the new Horus heresy novels - written by some of the best authors of 40k and their rulewriters.

Many interpretations seem to focus on two polar extremes: the "controlled psychopath" that draws from the earlier materials, and the "noble knight," which seems to be the more recent interpretations that leads to such things as the Horus Heresy novels. (I'm self-evidently a grognard of the setting. :D)

Originally Posted by KjetilKverndokken

When it comes to economy and society it gets answered in many novels and the Dark heresy and Rogue Trader rpg's.

Well, insofar as it alludes to medieval European society. How it actually works requires that the GM throw in a fair bit of interpretation. I've always wanted to see a GURPS-style breakdown of the Imperium (and other societies of the 40k universe).

Originally Posted by KjetilKverndokken

Economy is by trading more then the use of thrones (thats the name of the 40k cash).

The idea of an Imperium-level cash economy is a popular concept, though, and not quite as unfeasible as one might imagine (e.g. based upon the tithe calculations of the Adeptus Administratum). With that said, though, there are still questions that are not answered--trade routes, the nature of trade as it relates to tithe redistribution, etc. Is information exchanged outside of the Astropathic Network (likely; necessary, even), and if so how...?

Originally Posted by KjetilKverndokken

Society is different from world to world so theres no problem there to use the imagination.

Yet there appears to be a constant thread that defines "Imperial," whether that be the nobility or something else is up for grabs. How does the organisations of the Imperium function in relation to local government, etc.

Originally Posted by KjetilKverndokken

Travel is mostly done by the rich and influential, pilgrims and soldiers.

Travel must be extensive in the Imperium, e.g. the oft-forgotten idea that Guard, members of the Adeptus Arbites, etc., are not meant to be posted to their birth worlds/systems. Communication, therefore, must be far more extensive. Also, one must remember the uber-size of Imperial ships--it would be possible even for a single vessel to comfortable take tens of thousands of individuals. Based upon earlier published figures, there might be anything from 3,000-3,500 warp-capable vessels in an "average" sector.

That's a whole lot of space...

Originally Posted by KjetilKverndokken

So 40k is actually a very easy setting to be a GM in.

The more you know about it, it seems, the less easy it becomes. Suffice to say that I've been more actively involved in 40k RPG since around 2000, and I would still love to see more information on all of these topics.

Kage

[Zorian]

I am interested in running a game in this setting as well but on a smaller scale. I was wondering about Pskers...

I was thinking about having all but the most basic passive powers have a skill or att (will probably) roll attached with crit failures being real bad (extra limitation?)

But it is my interpretation that powers are easier but more dangerous in areas near thin spots in reality, basically were it is easier for daemons to manifest. How to do that with advantages, and not spells? I could use the mana chart but...