[Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...

[Tema69]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

The big thing I found helped me was assuming that much of what you hear about Space marines is Imperial propaganda & myth making. No acid spit or concealed projectile finger nails. They were still really powerful (+6 ST & HT will do that to a person) but within the realm of the game mechanics.

That's kinda like playing a game where Orks paint there vehicles blue, and are lousy close combat fighters...?

The Adeptus Astartes have acid spitting abilities, superhuman strength and endurance, multiple extra organs, etc etc... It's their fluff, it's in the books (both rulebooks and noncodex "fiction").
I'd be extremely disappointed if Space Marines sucked (proportionally) in a 40k game. But if your players are cool with it, go nuts!

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As for the reworked armour, I think it looks better now. Please do note the DR values so we don't need to look it up though. Makes for much faster C&C.

I'd go with TL9 Light Clamshell (Torso, DR30) for Flak Armour (Sv 5+). In VERY high tech worlds, perhaps add a flexible concealable bodysuit, like a Reflex Bodysuit. For the Krieg Regiment, the coats are more of a HAZMAT suit than armour, so I'd look into that instead.
Also, a TL9 or 10 Light Infantry Helmet (Skull, DR 18 or 24) would be appropriate for most regiments.

...for Carapace Armour (Sv 4+), I'd choose TL9 Combat Hardsuit (all 50/30) as previously suggested. It fits the fluff better, and represents the "plate" nature of the armour. Add an Infantry Combat Helmet, and you've got yourself full Stormtrooper Armour. A Light Infantry Helmet would be more appropriate for non-stormtroopers in Carapace.

Space Marine Armour seems good enough at TL10 Heavy Battlesuit (DR 150/100) and TL11 Dreadnought Battlesuit (DR 200/150).

Edit: Also, I'd make all 40k Armour Semi-Ablative. It fits the fluff, and it would explain how a lucky Lasgun shot could punch through Power Armour.

As for weapons, I'm pretty sure that most close combat weapons would be pretty standard. A knife or a bayonet would probably just be a regular knife or bayonet, without any hightech addition. The only way to penetrate armoured foes with it would be to strike unarmoured locations or chinks.

Chainblades could be represented by the Vibroblade upgrade, making a standard Chainsword the equivalent of a Vibroblade Broadsword: Sw+1+1d (3) cut or Thr+1 cr. That, assuming a ST12 soldier, is on average 10 points of damage. Even against Flak Armour, it only has a chance of penetrating and wounding, so repeated blows would be required. Or hitting chinks or unarmoured areas, which explains why a Chainsword counts as a CCW just like a knife or a bayonet. It's not overpoweringly much greater.

LasRifles might be harder though, because they ingame are Rapid Fire (one shot at long range, two shots at closer range, but can't assault in the same turn), but fluffwise, they often are full auto as well.
I guess we can represent that just like modern Assault Rifles - the military mostly teaches semiauto firing, but in case of emergency, the weapon can fire full auto.
I think it should be a TL9 Assault Laser. The weight/bulk seems appropriate, so does damage (on average 14 with a double armour penetrator, which makes it "on par" with the chainsword against Flak Armour - both being ST3 and AP-, I guess that's appropriate). RoF could be changed to 3 (semiauto) or even 10 (full auto) to represent the various patterns though. I'd also make it Reliable. Accuracy seems awfully high for a 40k infantry weapon though, but I guess it's appropriate.
LasPistols would be a TL10 Heavy Laser Pistol (same damage as TL9 Assault Laser), but with reduced RoF. I'd make it RoF 3 personally.

Edit: Just re-read the OP, and since he wanted Lasguns to be able to punch through Power Armour, I calculated those odds.
24 max damage, with a (2) armour divisor. Assuming anything but a torso/skull hit, it's resolved against DR 100 (thus reduced to 50). Even if targetting a chink (halving DR again to 25), he wouldn't be able to penetrate. That's why I'd make all armour Semi-Ablative. A guardsman doesn't stand a chance against a newly arrived Marine, but one with field repairs and damaged armour might get wounded by a LasRifle targetting a chink in the arm/leg/face and dealing max damage (critical hit or otherwise).

Also, someone might want to check up on the Magazine sizes of Imperial Laser Weapons... I remember reading everything from 20 to 200 shots... :D

Hellguns/Hellpistols/HotShot Laser Weapons, assuming they're all the same - need to punch through Power Armour. Same damage as their Las-counterparts, but much higher (AP) modifier, and probably alot lower shots-per-magazine count. I'd also remove the Reliable issue from Hellguns, due to their much more powerful shots (I remember reading that the maintenance required on Hellguns are one of the reasons they aren't issued en masse).

As for Bolters, I thought that a Gyroc with the HEMP would be a good idea, just like you guys have suggested, but when I did the math, a Gyroc HEMP round would punch through Power Armour most of the time.
15mm HEMP does 5dx2(5) imp inc + a linked effect.
That's on average 35 points of damage with a (5) armour divisor. Power Armour is 150/100, so only 30/20 against this.
Since Bolters are AP5, not 4 or 3, that's a bit too high IMHO. Of course, fluff-wise, I guess it's fitting...
Personally, I'd rule damage as 7d(5) pi+ inc + the linked effect (linked 1d cr ex [1d-1]). That's 24.5 points of average damage, with a max of 42. That's gonna rip through Flak with no problems, penetrate and kill/wound Carapace, but needs some luckier shots to go through Power Armour.
Of course, Pi+ damage means that once it's through, it'll deal a lot of damage! (And yes, there's a reason I changed from Imp to Pi+, read below)

A Heavy Bolter has ST5 and AP4, so it's 1 better than standard Bolters in both areas. I'd up damage to 8d or 4dx2, change Pi+ to Imp, and increase the linked damage to Linked 1d+1 cr ex [1d]. That way it has slightly better armour piercing capabilities, better explosion (and Heavy Bolters are small grenade launchers), and higher wounding (or killing? ;P) capabilities, still without penetrating Power Armour all the time.

Edit2: Reduced the HB's linked damage.

As such, both Bolters and Heavy Bolters can penetrate pretty much everything, but Power Armour is relatively safer.

Also, now that damage is covered, we need to look at the other stats of the Bolter. It has a standard sickle mag of 20-30 rounds (let us assume 20 for the "civilian"/military version, and 30 for the Astartes version). There are Drum and Straight mags available too (with 40-60 rounds and 12-20 rounds, respectively).
Fluffwise, it's very important to differentiate between the Astartes and the other versions, because the Astartes version requires superhuman strength to control the weight and recoil. Mechanics-wise, a good way to also represent this would be the larger mag size, better optics/sights, reliability, accuracy, etc...
We're assuming that logistic-wise, the ammo is compatible/the same.

So statting the "civilian" pattern first, I noticed that stats fit better for the Gyroc LSW than the Carbine, so I'm gonne use those, but with the 20round mag instead. Using the Gyroc Launch Pistol stats with twice the weight seems reasonable for the "civilian" Bolt Pistol.

For the Astartes Versions, I'm gonna use an Astartes supplement for Dark Heresy as a reference. It notes weight as 14kg, or 28 lb. for the Bolter and 5kg/10lb for the Pistol. Then, finding a weapon with a similar weight for comparison, ST requirement should probably be 13 or 14.
Since we're talking Astartes Quality, I'd give them +1 Accuracy and Reliable. Since they're bigger than the standard ones too, I'd make Bulk 1 worse.

That gives us Acc 3, Range 1.900, Weight 28 lb., RoF 10, Shots 30 (5), ST13(twohanded), Bulk -5, Rcl 1.

Calculating the Bolt Pistol from there would be pretty easy:
Acc 2, Range 1.900, Weight 10 lb., RoF 3/9 (Semi or 3round Burst), Shots 10 (3), ST13, Bulk -3, Rcl 1.

Stormbolters would be...
Acc 3, Range 1.900, Weight 50 lb., RoF 2 (minimum) to 20 (maximum) [cannot fire an odd number of shots!], Shots 2x30 (5 for each mag), ST16(twohanded), Bulk -4 (it's shorter than a regular Bolter, and intended for CQB), Rcl 1.


Edit: Forgot to add the Heavy Bolter stats (apart from damage)
Acc 3, Range 1.900, Weight 120 lb., RoF 10, Shots 50 (5), ST20M, Bulk -6, Rcl 2.


I'll post now, and start to work on the other guns.