[Help to design] In the 41st millenium there is only...

[Tema69]

I'd up the Astartes Power Armour significantly, and reduce Flak Armour. Carapace needs to have a place in between those two.

Flak Armour: Sv5+ = Suck. Most weapons have AP5 at least anyway.
Carapace Armour: Sv4+ = Better, especially with fewer AP4 weapons.
Power Armour: Sv3+ = A LOT better, since VERY few weapons are AP3.
Remember that a Space Marine's Toughness 4 would be represented by high ST/HT, and not be mixed with his Armour when it comes to stats.
Terminator... well... ungodly good.


Unless you've read a lot of Astartes fluff/books, I'd avoid statting Astartes gear so far. Start out with the basic IG/traitor gear, and from there on, calculate Astartes gear.

But I'd be happy to help out with your project, I myself am considering creating a 40k one off adventure for a national con here in Denmark.
I've played 40k as Guards and Space Marines for ages, read a lot of fluffbooks, and have most of the IA books.
I'm relatively new to GURPS though. :)

[KjetilKverndokken]

Well, I will follow the story elements in Imperial Armour 5 to 7, so in the beginning there will be no marines.

This whole campaign is made to be a filler for the weekends we do not play our other major campaigns.

And we always wanted to have a pure war rpg :-)

[naloth]

Eldar most TL11ish:

Basically human stats w/

Lasblaster: TL11 Heavy X-Ray Laser Pistol 4d(5) burn, sur (UT117)
Scatter Laser: TL11 Semi-Portable X-Ray Laser 12d(5) burn, sur (UT117)
Starcannon: TL11 X-Ray Strike Laser 6dx5(5) burn, sur (UT117)
Bright Lance: TL11 X-Ray Laser Cannon 6dx10(5) burn, sur (UT117)

Fusion Gun: TL11 Heavy Fusion Gun 20d(2) burn ex (ST too high? UT128)

Shuriken Pistol: TL10 Gauss Shotgun Pistol w/HEMP 6dx2(5) imp inc + linked 1d+1 cr ex [1d] (UT142/155)
Shuriken Gun: TL10 Gauss CAW, 18.5mm 6dx2(5) imp inc + linked 1d+1 cr ex [1d] (UT142/155)
Shuriken Cannon:
TL10 Gauss HMG, 7mm 16d(3) pi (UT142)
TL10 Auto EMGL, 40mmG w/HEMP 6dx5(10) cr inc + linked 4d cr ex [2d]

Wraithcannon: TL11 Semi-Portable Graviton Beam 6d(∞) cr (UT129)
D-Cannon: TL11 Graviton Cannon 6dx5(∞) cr (UT129)

Missile Launcher (as IG/SM).

All Eldar should get Hyperdense blades (/5).
Howling Banshees should get Nanothorn Blades (UT 164 /10 divisor, corrosive dmg).
Witchblades can be Force Swords while Singing Spears are Force Glaives that you can throw like spears.

Eldar w/5+ sv should get TL10 Space Armor DR 75/45.
Eldar w/4+ sv should get TL11 Space Armor DR 100/60.
Eldar w/3+ sv should get TL12 Space Armor DR 150/90.
Howling Banshees should get TL11 Military Cybersuit DR 80 ST+10.
Striking Scorpions should get TL10 Heavy Battlesuit DR150/100 ST+20.

These are based on the effect more than the TL. Naturally there should be some drawbacks and bonuses associated with higher/lower TL. The TL10 stuff should be lighter (less move impact, doesn't matter for scorps) while the TL12 suits can be heavier.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

I assume this is a wargame term, but a quick google search did not lead me to anything close to an answer... what is a "combat buff"?

buff = bonus. It's more video game term. In the tabletop version Frag grenades negate the disadvantage of charging someone in cover. They don't have any other offensive impact.

As for the other stuff I put up here, it's pretty much randomly pulled from UltraTech to fit w/the type of weapon. The stats would have to be tweaked to make it closer to how 40k plays.

I would further clarify that anyone wearing combat dress has an open face helmet (more vulnerable to wide area weapons / head shots).

[Ego Archive]

Originally Posted by naloth

>>SNIP<<

IG Armor: TL10 Combat Hardsuit DR 75/45 (UT 180)
Marine Power Armor: TL10 Commando Battlesuit DR 105/75 +15 effective ST (UT 186)
Marine Termie Armor: TL10 Hvy Battlesuit DR 150/100 +20 ST (UT 186)

Note: Marines have a high basic ST & HT to compensate for (relatively) weak armor.

*Upgraded Flamer.

Personally I'd probably do the armor like so:
Flak Armour - Nanoweave Tacsuit +TL10 light Clamshell
Carapace armour - Monocrys Tacsuit +TL10 heavy Clamshell
SM Scout Armour - Commando Battlesuit
SM Power Armour - Heavy Battlesuit
SM Artificer Armour - Heavy Battlesuit (High Quality) +50/50 DR
Terminator Armour - Dreadnought Battlesuit+ Tactical Force screen + Teleport projectors (Requires Beacon)

Also the Space Marine Geneseed, and implants would be added to the character template.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Ego Archive

Personally I'd probably do the armor like so:
Flak Armour - Nanoweave Tacsuit +TL10 light Clamshell
Carapace armour - Monocrys Tacsuit +TL10 heavy Clamshell

It's easier to see the difference if you list the DR values.
Nanoweave Suit DR18/10 + TL10 Light Clamshell DR 45 (torso)
Monocrys Suit DR24/8 + TL10 Hvy Clamshell DR 60 (torso)

The nanoweave + clamshell does represent flak better. For the carapace I would go the TL Combat Hardsuit (DR 75/45) since that's closer to midway between what armors you've chosen for 5+ and 3+.

SM Scout Armour - Commando Battlesuit
SM Power Armour - Heavy Battlesuit
SM Artificer Armour - Heavy Battlesuit (High Quality) +50/50 DR
Terminator Armour - Dreadnought Battlesuit+ Tactical Force screen + Teleport projectors (Requires Beacon)

These sounds pretty good other than the Tactical Force Screen. Perhaps the Personal Force Field, but it's no where as good as the Storm Shield (which I think the Force Shield Braclet does a pretty good job of representing).

Also the Space Marine Geneseed, and implants would be added to the character template.

Agreed.

[KjetilKverndokken]

All of this is in Ultratech book right?

[Dangerious P. Cats]

In the 41st millenium there is only...

AppleSauce!

I was looking at doing a 40K based campaign a while back since I wanted to work with a setting that was both original and familia to players. I tended to treat a lot of gear as lower TL on the assuption that low TL stuff would be easier to make in a higher TL. Guard armour was TL 8 body armour, I just used the Generic riffle from basic set of an auotgun. I found no trouble giving guardsmen basic swords and knives with no special monoblades or vibrobits, reserving those for officers and space marines which were by definition hardcore.

The big thing I found helped me was assuming that much of what you hear about Space marines is Imperial propaganda & myth making. No acid spit or concealed projectile finger nails. They were still really powerful (+6 ST & HT will do that to a person) but within the realm of the game mechanics.

[Mr Frost]

Originally Posted by PPoS

Here's some stuff I've done in the past:

Leman Russ Tank
It's not complete; but it's a start for you to work on.

HP: 205
Hull Front DR: 560
Hull Side DR : 170
Hull Rear DR: 130

125mm Battle Cannon
AP: 6dx25 pi++ (2)
HE: 6dx25 pi++ (2) follow-up 6dx4 cr ex [6d]

Far too weakly armoured and armed for the setting ; the obsolete T-72 {real life Russian export tank that was destroyed in huge numbers during the 2 Gulf Wars} in High Tech on P.244 would have it for breakfast with those stats {which means the best modern tanks of today Such as the Abrams , Challanger 2 and Leopard 2 would utterly dominate it} which makes no sense given it is supposed to be far more powerful and advanced than the tanks of today .

I would say up the frontal armour to somewhere between D.R. 3,000 and D.R. 4,000 {or even as high as 5,000 , the latest tanks of today have around 1,500} , the sides to between D.R. 500 and D.R. 1,000 {the best modern tanks have up to 500 on the turret sides} , the rear between 250 and 500 and the top and belly between 125 and 250 .

Then upgrade that gun to match with the best A.P. ammunition giving 6 dice times [the frontal armour/50] (2) . If you're working from High Tech or Ultra Tech , concider it an improvement on APFSDSDU -High Tech p.169- , using something denser and more exotic for the penetrator and perhaps call it APFSDSEM -Exotic Matter- , that doubles the guns' basic damage and range and gives an armour divisor of 2 .
You could reverse engineer the stats of other rounds from there {Base it off the Russian Rapira tank cannon on p.140-141} though I'd multiply explosive damage by 2 to 4 times {better explosives} and increase accuracy and range {acc 5+5 , 1/2 D 5,000 Max 15,000 -10,000 and 30,000 with the APFSDSEM round} .

[Tema69]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

The big thing I found helped me was assuming that much of what you hear about Space marines is Imperial propaganda & myth making. No acid spit or concealed projectile finger nails. They were still really powerful (+6 ST & HT will do that to a person) but within the realm of the game mechanics.

That's kinda like playing a game where Orks paint there vehicles blue, and are lousy close combat fighters...?

The Adeptus Astartes have acid spitting abilities, superhuman strength and endurance, multiple extra organs, etc etc... It's their fluff, it's in the books (both rulebooks and noncodex "fiction").
I'd be extremely disappointed if Space Marines sucked (proportionally) in a 40k game. But if your players are cool with it, go nuts!

---


As for the reworked armour, I think it looks better now. Please do note the DR values so we don't need to look it up though. Makes for much faster C&C.

I'd go with TL9 Light Clamshell (Torso, DR30) for Flak Armour (Sv 5+). In VERY high tech worlds, perhaps add a flexible concealable bodysuit, like a Reflex Bodysuit. For the Krieg Regiment, the coats are more of a HAZMAT suit than armour, so I'd look into that instead.
Also, a TL9 or 10 Light Infantry Helmet (Skull, DR 18 or 24) would be appropriate for most regiments.

...for Carapace Armour (Sv 4+), I'd choose TL9 Combat Hardsuit (all 50/30) as previously suggested. It fits the fluff better, and represents the "plate" nature of the armour. Add an Infantry Combat Helmet, and you've got yourself full Stormtrooper Armour. A Light Infantry Helmet would be more appropriate for non-stormtroopers in Carapace.

Space Marine Armour seems good enough at TL10 Heavy Battlesuit (DR 150/100) and TL11 Dreadnought Battlesuit (DR 200/150).

Edit: Also, I'd make all 40k Armour Semi-Ablative. It fits the fluff, and it would explain how a lucky Lasgun shot could punch through Power Armour.

As for weapons, I'm pretty sure that most close combat weapons would be pretty standard. A knife or a bayonet would probably just be a regular knife or bayonet, without any hightech addition. The only way to penetrate armoured foes with it would be to strike unarmoured locations or chinks.

Chainblades could be represented by the Vibroblade upgrade, making a standard Chainsword the equivalent of a Vibroblade Broadsword: Sw+1+1d (3) cut or Thr+1 cr. That, assuming a ST12 soldier, is on average 10 points of damage. Even against Flak Armour, it only has a chance of penetrating and wounding, so repeated blows would be required. Or hitting chinks or unarmoured areas, which explains why a Chainsword counts as a CCW just like a knife or a bayonet. It's not overpoweringly much greater.

LasRifles might be harder though, because they ingame are Rapid Fire (one shot at long range, two shots at closer range, but can't assault in the same turn), but fluffwise, they often are full auto as well.
I guess we can represent that just like modern Assault Rifles - the military mostly teaches semiauto firing, but in case of emergency, the weapon can fire full auto.
I think it should be a TL9 Assault Laser. The weight/bulk seems appropriate, so does damage (on average 14 with a double armour penetrator, which makes it "on par" with the chainsword against Flak Armour - both being ST3 and AP-, I guess that's appropriate). RoF could be changed to 3 (semiauto) or even 10 (full auto) to represent the various patterns though. I'd also make it Reliable. Accuracy seems awfully high for a 40k infantry weapon though, but I guess it's appropriate.
LasPistols would be a TL10 Heavy Laser Pistol (same damage as TL9 Assault Laser), but with reduced RoF. I'd make it RoF 3 personally.

Edit: Just re-read the OP, and since he wanted Lasguns to be able to punch through Power Armour, I calculated those odds.
24 max damage, with a (2) armour divisor. Assuming anything but a torso/skull hit, it's resolved against DR 100 (thus reduced to 50). Even if targetting a chink (halving DR again to 25), he wouldn't be able to penetrate. That's why I'd make all armour Semi-Ablative. A guardsman doesn't stand a chance against a newly arrived Marine, but one with field repairs and damaged armour might get wounded by a LasRifle targetting a chink in the arm/leg/face and dealing max damage (critical hit or otherwise).

Also, someone might want to check up on the Magazine sizes of Imperial Laser Weapons... I remember reading everything from 20 to 200 shots... :D

Hellguns/Hellpistols/HotShot Laser Weapons, assuming they're all the same - need to punch through Power Armour. Same damage as their Las-counterparts, but much higher (AP) modifier, and probably alot lower shots-per-magazine count. I'd also remove the Reliable issue from Hellguns, due to their much more powerful shots (I remember reading that the maintenance required on Hellguns are one of the reasons they aren't issued en masse).

As for Bolters, I thought that a Gyroc with the HEMP would be a good idea, just like you guys have suggested, but when I did the math, a Gyroc HEMP round would punch through Power Armour most of the time.
15mm HEMP does 5dx2(5) imp inc + a linked effect.
That's on average 35 points of damage with a (5) armour divisor. Power Armour is 150/100, so only 30/20 against this.
Since Bolters are AP5, not 4 or 3, that's a bit too high IMHO. Of course, fluff-wise, I guess it's fitting...
Personally, I'd rule damage as 7d(5) pi+ inc + the linked effect (linked 1d cr ex [1d-1]). That's 24.5 points of average damage, with a max of 42. That's gonna rip through Flak with no problems, penetrate and kill/wound Carapace, but needs some luckier shots to go through Power Armour.
Of course, Pi+ damage means that once it's through, it'll deal a lot of damage! (And yes, there's a reason I changed from Imp to Pi+, read below)

A Heavy Bolter has ST5 and AP4, so it's 1 better than standard Bolters in both areas. I'd up damage to 8d or 4dx2, change Pi+ to Imp, and increase the linked damage to Linked 1d+1 cr ex [1d]. That way it has slightly better armour piercing capabilities, better explosion (and Heavy Bolters are small grenade launchers), and higher wounding (or killing? ;P) capabilities, still without penetrating Power Armour all the time.

Edit2: Reduced the HB's linked damage.

As such, both Bolters and Heavy Bolters can penetrate pretty much everything, but Power Armour is relatively safer.

Also, now that damage is covered, we need to look at the other stats of the Bolter. It has a standard sickle mag of 20-30 rounds (let us assume 20 for the "civilian"/military version, and 30 for the Astartes version). There are Drum and Straight mags available too (with 40-60 rounds and 12-20 rounds, respectively).
Fluffwise, it's very important to differentiate between the Astartes and the other versions, because the Astartes version requires superhuman strength to control the weight and recoil. Mechanics-wise, a good way to also represent this would be the larger mag size, better optics/sights, reliability, accuracy, etc...
We're assuming that logistic-wise, the ammo is compatible/the same.

So statting the "civilian" pattern first, I noticed that stats fit better for the Gyroc LSW than the Carbine, so I'm gonne use those, but with the 20round mag instead. Using the Gyroc Launch Pistol stats with twice the weight seems reasonable for the "civilian" Bolt Pistol.

For the Astartes Versions, I'm gonna use an Astartes supplement for Dark Heresy as a reference. It notes weight as 14kg, or 28 lb. for the Bolter and 5kg/10lb for the Pistol. Then, finding a weapon with a similar weight for comparison, ST requirement should probably be 13 or 14.
Since we're talking Astartes Quality, I'd give them +1 Accuracy and Reliable. Since they're bigger than the standard ones too, I'd make Bulk 1 worse.

That gives us Acc 3, Range 1.900, Weight 28 lb., RoF 10, Shots 30 (5), ST13(twohanded), Bulk -5, Rcl 1.

Calculating the Bolt Pistol from there would be pretty easy:
Acc 2, Range 1.900, Weight 10 lb., RoF 3/9 (Semi or 3round Burst), Shots 10 (3), ST13, Bulk -3, Rcl 1.

Stormbolters would be...
Acc 3, Range 1.900, Weight 50 lb., RoF 2 (minimum) to 20 (maximum) [cannot fire an odd number of shots!], Shots 2x30 (5 for each mag), ST16(twohanded), Bulk -4 (it's shorter than a regular Bolter, and intended for CQB), Rcl 1.


Edit: Forgot to add the Heavy Bolter stats (apart from damage)
Acc 3, Range 1.900, Weight 120 lb., RoF 10, Shots 50 (5), ST20M, Bulk -6, Rcl 2.


I'll post now, and start to work on the other guns.