[Spaceships] Ammo storage vs Weapon size

[Langy]

Uhh, what?

What I was saying was that you can actually fit more missiles into a VLS-type system than you can a launch tube system for the same mass. If you want to figure out how many missiles you can fit in a VLS system, take the mass of the system (0.5 tons for SM+4, 1.5 tons for SM+5, 5 tons for SM+6, etc) and divide it by two. That's how much mass you have available for actual missiles.

Even that is likely overstating the mass requirements. You could probably get away with just using the mass capacity of a Hangar system - a VLS cell doesn't require a number of things that an actual hangar does, but it does need some mechanism for getting the missile out of the ship unless you're willing to fire off the main engine inside the cell.

Since realistically VLS cells should scale linearlly with missile mass and not the scaling given in the book for normal missile tubes (which also should scale linearlly with missile mass, as far as I can tell, and I can't figure out why they don't), you wind up with a lot more missiles of the same size (or bigger!) available in a dedicated VLS system than in a missile tube with reloads system and you can use all of them at once.

For an example of this, look at the difference between the Olivery Hazard Perry-class frigates and the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. The Perry's had a single 40-round missile magazine for a single missile launcher firing 1500-pound missiles. The Burke's have ninety vertical launch system cells, each one firing a single 3000-pound missile, and the Burke's are only twice the displacement of the Perry's. They have more and bigger other weapons, as well.

So, for an SM+7 ship with a single Major Battery of missile tubes with reloads, you've got a single missile tube firing 28cm missiles with 15 reloads. A 28cm missile is 1/2 of a ton. If you instead switch to a VLS system, at worst you can fit 15 VLS cells (15 tons of capacity * 0.5 tons of missiles/tons of capacity * 1/0.5 tons/missile) each with a 28cm missile ready to fire. If you instead assume that you the mass requirements are the same as a Hangar bay instead of taking a full 100% of missile mass for the launch cells, you can fit 20 VLS cells of 28cm missiles in that same Major Battery.

[Snoman314]

Originally Posted by Langy

What I was saying was that you can actually fit more missiles into a VLS-type system than you can a launch tube system for the same mass. If you want to figure out how many missiles you can fit in a VLS system, take the mass of the system (0.5 tons for SM+4, 1.5 tons for SM+5, 5 tons for SM+6, etc) and divide it by two. That's how much mass you have available for actual missiles.

Even that is likely overstating the mass requirements. You could probably get away with just using the mass capacity of a Hangar system - a VLS cell doesn't require a number of things that an actual hangar does, but it does need some mechanism for getting the missile out of the ship unless you're willing to fire off the main engine inside the cell.

Since realistically VLS cells should scale linearlly with missile mass and not the scaling given in the book for normal missile tubes (which also should scale linearlly with missile mass, as far as I can tell, and I can't figure out why they don't), you wind up with a lot more missiles of the same size (or bigger!) available in a dedicated VLS system than in a missile tube with reloads system and you can use all of them at once.

For an example of this, look at the difference between the Olivery Hazard Perry-class frigates and the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers. The Perry's had a single 40-round missile magazine for a single missile launcher firing 1500-pound missiles. The Burke's have ninety vertical launch system cells, each one firing a single 3000-pound missile, and the Burke's are only twice the displacement of the Perry's. They have more and bigger other weapons, as well.

So, for an SM+7 ship with a single Major Battery of missile tubes with reloads, you've got a single missile tube firing 28cm missiles with 15 reloads. A 28cm missile is 1/2 of a ton. If you instead switch to a VLS system, at worst you can fit 15 VLS cells (15 tons of capacity * 0.5 tons of missiles/tons of capacity * 1/0.5 tons/missile) each with a 28cm missile ready to fire. If you instead assume that you the mass requirements are the same as a Hangar bay instead of taking a full 100% of missile mass for the launch cells, you can fit 20 VLS cells of 28cm missiles in that same Major Battery.

Ahh I see, but unfortunately, that would mean that if this was how I was to make my VLS's, there would be no reason to use the normal systems.
Your numbers make sense logically, but don't balance well the current system.

EDIT: I'm going to have another look at this, but busy right now.

[Langy]

I agree, but that's fine, because, as I said, there's very little to no reason to use the normal system.

You can still use it if you want a ridiculous number of reloads, of course - with that same SM+7 major battery, you could have a 30 shot VLS in two major batteries or you could have a single launch tube and 45 reloads in one major battery and one cargo hold. It's not particularly useful, but you can still do it. It's also easier to reload than a VLS.

Why would you want to balance it in regards to the normal, non-VLS method, anyways? Non-VLS missiles suck in comparison to VLS missiles in real life, which is why the US Navy stopped using. The only thing better than a VLS system is a hardpoint, where the missile is on the outside of the ship and doesn't even need a seperate launching mechanism. It'll be an exposed system, but it'll also be able to carry twice as many missiles as a VLS system.

[Ulzgoroth]

Note that hanger bays do have a limited launch rate, which scales as surface area.

An SM+15 hangar launching 5000 tons of missiles per minute puts you in a very good position compared to the 120 ton/minute launch rate that a SM+15 major battery can pull off, though... (Not that there's any reason I can come up with to want to launch 112cm missiles.)

[Langy]

There's no mass-based reason hangars need to scale in that fashion. It makes sense for larger ships, but not so much when your 'hangar' is only ten meters deep.

In other words: When using them for a VLS type system, you should be fine with just saying they can all fire at once, regardless of the total tonnage involved.

[Snoman314]

Originally Posted by Langy

There's no mass-based reason hangars need to scale in that fashion. It makes sense for larger ships, but not so much when your 'hangar' is only ten meters deep.

In other words: When using them for a VLS type system, you should be fine with just saying they can all fire at once, regardless of the total tonnage involved.

Especially as a large array can have multiple missiles launching simultaneously, as they're all spread out over the hull.