Things TLs 7-9 would be interesting to see WITHOUT

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

This more of a free practice for world-building, but I'm curious about possible differences that would make alternate worlds of a TL similar to ours (i.e. from TL7 to TL9, with almost-humans) look very different from ours. It seems that I'm not good at judging possible consequences, so both analyses of consequences and more examples are welcome. So, a few ideas of mine:

• No consumerism.
• No corporations at all.
• No makeup (okay, this one goes from than TL0 . . .).
• No skyscrapers and multilevel residences (only workplaces and hotels fall so low).
• No Superpowers (i.e. all countries are no larger than England, Poland, France etc.).
• No centralized cellphone systems (but radio relays are fully maintained by volunteers, linux-style).
• No patents - only copyrights and trademarks.
• No intellectual property, but only in the world of software.
• No governmental armies - only mercs.
• No mercs - armies started as militias and ended up as governmental armies.
• No social gender roles at all - wonder how that would affect technology from the onset.
• No internet.
• No GUIs.

Thanks in advance!

[LemmingLord]

no war - world peace at TL7.
no cars - only mass transit and mopeds.
no space program - no satelites, gps, etc.

[Xilodel]

I'm no government or economics expert, so I'm just going to stick to what I know here. Namely, life without the internet would be considerably different. Actually, I'm still in shock as to how dependent the world became on technology that only really took off 15 years ago.

No internet would mean that instant and non-personal communication becomes much, MUCH harder - the only way to get in contact with someone is to call them, visit them in person, or take the time to write a letter.

The time required to do any meaningful research probably triples or quadruples, as now you must go to a library, physically search for it, and copy the information you need.

No Google Maps. People with no sense of direction like myself. Enough said.

The entertainment industry would look remarkably different - as internet gaming would exist.

On the plus side, it makes things like identity theft that much more difficult, since millions of people aren't buying things electronically every day. And, it makes it harder for people like pedophiles and stalkers to do what they do, since the veil of anonymity the web provides suddenly disappears.

I'm sure there are other consequences, but these are all I can think of off the top of my head.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

For most of those, imagine a world that looks like Renaissance Europe, only with somewhat better toys. A lot of the things you mention (corporations, IP law, standing armies, extensive communications networks, tall buildings which aren't hugely expensive monuments, etc.) are developments of late TL4 and beyond. Economic and technological development are slower because it's difficult to bring a lot of capital to bear and long-distance communication is difficult and limited.

Originally Posted by Molokh

[*]No social gender roles at all - wonder how that would affect technology from the onset.

Technologically, could be no impact at all. You just get a different mix of the people doing the work. Socially...well, it'd be significant to say the least. Inheritance, sexuality, and family structure could get very complicated.

Originally Posted by Molokh

[*]No GUIs.

Computers never become a household item.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

For most of those, imagine a world that looks like Renaissance Europe, only with somewhat better toys. A lot of the things you mention (corporations, IP law, standing armies, extensive communications networks, tall buildings which aren't hugely expensive monuments, etc.) are developments of late TL4 and beyond. Economic and technological development are slower because it's difficult to bring a lot of capital to bear and long-distance communication is difficult and limited.

Umm, not necessarily all these things at the same time.

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Computers never become a household item.

Well, there was a time when a typical user didn't always have Windows (back in the 3.1 days), and most couldn't afford a Mac.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Umm, not necessarily all these things at the same time.

They've all got more or less the same effects (slowing economic and technological growth and/or complicating communication). The degree to which that happens depends on how many you have.

Originally Posted by Molokh

Well, there was a time when a typical user didn't always have Windows (back in the 3.1 days), and most couldn't afford a Mac.

Yep. And at the time, the typical user wasn't...well, a typical person. Personal computers were owned by a small minority of enthusiasts, not the average person.

[Nymdok]

IN my head, I love the idea of a world without or limited plastic.

I love Retro-futurisim/Solar Patrol type images of the future.

Brushed Aluminum reflects golden rays off of aspiring skylines and cylindrical Rocket ships. Things are built of Wood, Stone and Metal. Hefty and Durable. Things are controlled by dials, knobs and sticks and readouts are needles/gagues and analog numeric indicators. Lights are not just bright, but warm.

See what you did? Now I have to go watch Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow......

Nymdok

[thulben]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Umm, not necessarily all these things at the same time.

Well, there was a time when a typical user didn't always have Windows (back in the 3.1 days), and most couldn't afford a Mac.

Yep...and that time didn't see the kind of market penetration that we have today. The thing of it is that the "typical" user (if there is such a thing) back in those days was interested in the computer because either s/he was good a seeing the potential for it to be a game changer or was just interested in it from a hobbyist's perspective. So to say that the typical user did things a certain way is slightly misleading since the typical user didn't represent the typical person. Today, it does.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Well, there was a time when a typical user didn't always have Windows (back in the 3.1 days), and most couldn't afford a Mac.

Yes, and computers were not used by nearly so many people.

I vividly remember the class where I was introduced to word processing, on a DOS version of Word . . . I detested it so much that I swore never to use word processing again for the rest of my life. The only way to tell the program to do anything was to look on a scribbled list of F keys and what each one did, which had no mnemonic value at all. There was often no obvious on-screen indicator of what it had done or was doing. And when I ran into problems, the TA's advice was that I had to sit and fiddle around with the computer until I was familiar with how it worked . . . which was not welcome advice, first, because I was taking time out of my work week to use the computer lab and grudged every minute I spent there that wasn't actually getting my papers written (this was a writing class, not a computer class), and second, because fiddling around with a computer was as utterly unrewarding as any activity I could imagine.

Then I did some volunteer work where I was asked to use a Macintosh, and I've never looked back.

Obviously, there are people who like the arcane aspects of computer use: the memorized codes, the precise syntax, the logic puzzles, and so on. But that's a specialized mindset. And without GUI, computer use would be much more restricted to people who had that specialized mindset . . . to programmers, more than users.

Bill Stoddard

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Yep. And at the time, the typical user wasn't...well, a typical person. Personal computers were owned by a small minority of enthusiasts, not the average person.

That would probably enhance the hacker mythos. The whole meme of the "hacker," especially as seen by the outside world, came about because computers were complicated yet powerful (like magic), so it took real study and enthusiasm to master one, but someone who did had access to tools and capabilities that others did not.

You'll note that the notion of the "hacker" is fading alot in the popular consciousness. TV characters make use of computers in their daily lives, and you no longer have "the computer user" constantly banging on his keys as people ask him questions and he interprets them into code. That's probably because, in real life, everyone uses computers and they've lost alot of their mystery. In a world without GUI, they retain that mystery.

A more interesting question might be "Why no GUI?"

Here's one I've been considering for an alien race: the presence of nuclear power, but not nuclear weapons. I'm not sure how plausible that is, though. Any thoughts?