Why is Broad-Minded a Quirk?

[Presence]

Aren't quirks supposed to be fun?

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by Presence

Aren't quirks supposed to be fun?

Mostly. I would have a hard time making Likes (Macrame) fun, though.

[Presence]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Mostly. I would have a hard time making Likes (Macrame) fun, though.

I dunno, I can just picture a thief running off with my favorite twine ball. Seriously though, no one start any threads about the points you can get for writing your back story. I don't want to see what people have to say about the kind of constant drawbacks your character should have to endure for that massive pile of free points.

I always kind of figured the game tossed a few rewards for fleshing out your character, giving the GM adventure hooks, and having fun with silly character traits. I guess not everyone sees it that way. 23 pages and counting. Holy hell.

[Ragitsu]

Well, typically you can only get up to five Quirks. Thats up to five "free" points.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by kenclary

It is obvious that it was written and edited, but not at all obvious that the designer/editor agreed with _your_ opinion on what Broad-Minded means.

I'm not sure what you're refering to. No-one consulted me on it, ever. Personally, I begin from the POV that what someone writes is generally what they intend, so when the trait is described in a particular way (e.g. you get along with strangers), I assume that's what they intended. True, sometimes it becomes evident that's not the case, but what can you do?

Designers and editors also put the quirk into the chapter, wrote Xenophilia, and headed the trait with "trivial form of Xenophilia", all keeping in mind the definition and purpose of quirks.

Well, as I explained already, I think there have been a number of designers and editors involved over the years, and that those who originally devised this Quirk had something of a wrong notion about how they should work.

If you look at Uplift as I suggested, you might understand better why I say this.

Indeed.

Well, good. That was basically the only point I was making.

However, the quirk is only problematic if your assumption that it was intended to be beneficial is correct.

The problem is not my assumptions, or the intentions of the designer. The problem is that the description provided details beneficial things rather than foibles or constraints that are appropriate for a Quirk, quite irrespective of what I think broadmindedness should mean, or whatever may actually have been intended.

I think the problem is, at worst, a simple minor writing error.

Let me know if you feel the same way after you've looked at Uplift.

Broad-Minded was intended to be a quirk[1], written as a quirk[2], and priced like a quirk.

1. That seems likely, since they labelled it as such. (As I mentioned, I have a feeling that the designers at the time were operating under a different, less correct, approach to what a Quirk meant.)

2. It seemed to me that you agreed above that the writing was faulty.

If it were intended to have the beneficial effect you seem to think it is written to have, it would not be a perk; instead it would be an full advantage:...

My view on this point is in post # 194.

It [being a jerk] could impress an Intolerant Overlord who is watching, leading to your promotion in the ranks of his oppressive secret police. It could provoke your social rival into violence, allowing you to get them arrested. If the right people are watching, it could get you a lucrative job in talk radio.

Let's break this argument down a bit.

You're saying that the trait 'isn't a jerk' is disadvantageous because the character is hindered from showing such conduct to persons who admire jerk behaviour.

I think this can be refuted by analogy -- A trait that precludes sadism would have the same hindering effect in respect of persons who admire sadistic behaviour. Yet I don't think 'Isn't a sadist' would pass muster with most GMs as a legitimate drawback.

Also, "Never loses track of his wallet" would be a perk; "pack rat: dislikes throwing away personal effects" would be a quirk.

Yes, though I'd change 'dislikes' to 'resists'.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Well, typically you can only get up to five Quirks. Thats up to five "free" points.

Not in 4e.

While in 3e it was -40 plus -5 for 5 quirks

In 4e the recommended limit -50% the point total including upto 5 quirks not in addition.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

This is true. So we return to the question. Why do you think they have Xenophilia be worth points?

The earlier question was 'what do you think the 10 points is for?'

The answer to that is that it is 'for' agreeing to play the behaviour and consequences outlined for the trait on page B162.

The answer to our present question is they have Xenophilia be worth points because of the view that the behaviour and consequences described impose constraints/limitations/drawbacks etc. that merit those points in the overall context of the GURPS point-based system.

I suspect you want me to say something that suggests these behaviours require some element of gullibility or naivety. While they do have an inherent element of inconvenience, nothing in the description requires that the behaviour come from such qualities as gullibility or naivete. The trait as described specifies behaviour, not any motivation other than simply xenophilic.

Consider this analogy, a Quirk: Enjoys the company of wild animals. It doesn't mean you are unaware they are potentially aggressive, or that you are not allowed to enjoy their company cognizant and prepared for these dangers.

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Not in 4e.

While in 3e it was -40 plus -5 for 5 quirks

In 4e the recommended limit -50% the point total including upto 5 quirks not in addition.

What are you talking about? I'm referring to Quirks, Page 162 ->

You may take up to five quirks at -1 point apiece . . . and if you do, you will have five more points to spend.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

I'd say it was written wrong if it was meant to mean "you are not bothered by their alienness".

...How are "you are not bothered by their alienness" and "strange looks rarely bother you" different?

[Wraithe]

23 (and counting) pages of this. I kinnae take it.

I think the OP has already been answered: "Because it makes you more inclined to be friendly with people/creatures/laws considered to be 'outsiders'".

It's a quirk because it's a minor disadvantage, as a quirk MUST be, per 4E B163. In this case - a "Trivial form of Xenophilia (B162):

It may mean you only are very interested in watching the Woman in hijab who has walked into the grocery store, rather than failing a control roll to go over and start talking to her. However, even that attention could cause trouble for you. (example for current TL8 society)

It may mean that instead of running AWAY from the furry creature that just crashed through the window of a Starbucks you decide, since it went the way you go home anyways...Oh wait, it didn't. Never mind then.

You're in this Cantina and when the proprieter say "No Droids!" you pipe up "Aw, harry, what's yer problem, they don't look like they're gonna cause any problem." (Unless they DO look like they're going to cause problems)

Simply put - You will not put yourself in obvious danger (That's CR for Xenophilia [-10]), but you're not put off by the social, legal, appearance, or danger perceptions that OTHERS expect you to have - which may tick THEM off. [-1]

-1 Point. It's a QUIRK.