Why is Broad-Minded a Quirk?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Well, the concept of Xenophilia does not require Gullibility. You are required to be attracted to their strangeness, but there is no requirement to ignore clear danger signals.

Would you consider a foreign soldier glaring at you to be a clear danger signal?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

In your house-rule.



IF they are strange and new to you.

It didn't say anything about their kinds having to be new to you. Now, sure, if you know that particular individual has been leaving a string of bodies behind them, or is currently engaged in attacking your village, then you are in character to react like that. But the quirk means that you generally will not classify, say, a vampire as a potential threat any more than another human. It means that even if the orcs have a long and fruitful history of making war on humanity and a bunch of them recently attacked your village you aren't allowed to attack those orcs just camping for the night, because they might not be involved.

[Ragitsu]

Once again, it should be brought up that Broad-Minded does not mean "gullible" or "stupid".

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It means that even if the orcs have a long and fruitful history of making war on humanity and a bunch of them recently attacked your village you aren't allowed to attack those orcs just camping for the night, because they might not be involved.

No it does not. What is says is that if you've never seen an orc you won't react baddly to their bad habits, you might even ignore what others have told you about them (because of their prejudice) but if you know that they are anti-human you sure can take precautions... however, when one approaches you and says "I won't attack you, I got kicked out of my band for liking humans" you will give him a chance even though others wouldn't because of him being from a race of sneaky <boys born out of wedlock>.

(Seconding Ragitsu's "not gullible/stupid" comment)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Once again, it should be brought up that Broad-Minded does not mean "gullible" or "stupid".

Yes, it does. Xenophile is a disadvantage that requires you to be stupid (if you fail your self control roll) when dealing with strangers and aliens. As the quirk level of Xenophile, Broad-minded doesn't require you to be stupid, but it does encourage you to be a little stupid when dealing with dangerous foreigners, aliens, and ethnic minorities in that you'll give them the benefit of the doubt even when there would be a tactical advantage to not doing so.

[nerdvana]

I get what you are trying to say David_Johnston2, but see my comment above... I think your example took it too far. A Broadminded individual in (say) Middle Earth, would not give orcs a chance, but would give the one orc who lied well enough about being reformed a chance IMO.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

No it does not. What is says is that if you've never seen an orc you won't react baddly to their bad habits, you might even ignore what others have told you about them (because of their prejudice) but if you know that they are anti-human you sure can take precautions...

I'm sorry why would you assume that they are anti-human just because other orcs have attacked humans? That's not very broad-minded of you. These orcs haven't done anything. Remember, humans also have a long history of attacking each other, but I'm not going to assume that every human is out to get me.

[kenclary]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

I would say your interpretation is based on a reasonable idea of what it should be, but it's not supported by what is actually there -- hence the need to correct what is there.

My interpretation is based on: the definition of Disadvantages, the definition of Quirks, the various notes and boxes on how they work (for that matter, the entire chapter on the subject), the clear, definitive sentence that includes "trivial form of Xenophilia," and the definition of Xenophlia.

Given that a trivial form of xenophilia should be disadvantageous, the designers' choice to add a description that is at odds with that leads one to think the choice must be deliberate. Otherwise, why add the text at all?

As I've been trying to convey, your entire argument seems to be based on the insistence that your interpretation was the designer's choice. I think _everything else the book(s) have to say about the matter_ is at odds with that. If you open with the assumption that the designers made an inconsistent trait, then of course your conclusion would be that the trait is inconsistent.

It is much more reasonable to assume that designers had a less-than-perfect choice of wording in "You get along well with other races and species..."

I wouldn't allow such a Quirk. Being a jerk is not a good thing, so a trait that forecloses it is beneficial.

You are confusing moral good with gaming advantage. "Being a jerk" can, in real life and in a game, lead to success. Regardless, a player choosing to limit their character to "not being a jerk" is still a limiting roleplaying trait, and completely within the intention of Quirks.

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I'm sorry why would you assume that they are anti-human just because other orcs have attacked humans? That's not very broad-minded of you. These orcs haven't done anything. Remember, humans also have a long history of attacking each other, but I'm not going to assume that every human is out to get me.

lol

Ok, that sways me. I like that kind of counter argument. Thanks for giving me a great laugh with that argument. How about if it were a band of orcs known for being anti-human (which was how I think I read your original comment)?

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

As the quirk level of Xenophile, Broad-minded doesn't require you to be stupid, but it does encourage you to be a little stupid when dealing with dangerous foreigners, aliens, and ethnic minorities in that you'll give them the benefit of the doubt even when there would be a tactical advantage to not doing so.

I didn't realize hearing both sides of the story was "stupid", nor that the Broad-Minded character couldn't take precautions.