Why is Broad-Minded a Quirk?

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by nick012000

Yes, there is. If you invite a monster in for a beer to tell his story, and he's just trying to get close enough to rip your throat out, it's a disadvantage. (...)

Seconded. You've put these examples, but there are many more, even in the real world. "Broad-Minded" can be good in some contexts, but in others it can be a really bad thing. It's a double-edged trait. Sometimes is needed to reject foreign influences for cultural survival because these influences can be, in various senses, harmful. It doesn't matter if many people today, in our globalized epoch, sees "Broad-Minded" only from its positive angles. Many civilizations entered into irreversible processes of decadence through the opening to foreign influences.

So, if it's a positive or negative trait, even an advantage or a disadvantage... that should be left entirely in hands of the GM/players' assumptions & campaign setting, as so many things. Overally speaking, I think "Broad-minded" makes more sense being classified as a Quirk, not a Perk nor an Advantage, because that keeps the trait in a more or less indeterminate status. The value or "Broad-Minded" is too variable and relative.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by nick012000

Yes, there is. If you invite a monster in for a beer to tell his story, and he's just trying to get close enough to rip your throat out, it's a disadvantage. If you're in Ravenloft, it's a disadvantage. Hell, it's a disadvantage generally; PCs have a reputation for being paranoid for a reason, you know. Anyone your PCs meet might be a threat, and Broad-minded prevents you from being properly paranoid about them.

It's possible for a GM to impose any kind of outcome onto a trait by building plot elements that play that way. Advantages can be disavatageous if the GM makes it so (e.g. a serial killer is hunting the wealthy). However, while the things you are imputing to Broadminded could indeed make it mildly disadvanageous, the written description of the trait doesn't contain them.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I think you're misunderstanding what the text of the quirk is supposed to mean.

Who is misunderstanding? I think it's you.

Of course, my reading may be influenced by seeking to interpret things in such a way that they aren't stupid.

You need to find the right starting point maybe.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Some of them are mechanical in the sense of a bonus, like High-Heeled Heroine which negates a specific penalty. All of them are mechanical in the sense that I use the term. Cloaked makes you immune to certain occurrences. That's as mechanical as immunity to poison. SOP doesn't change active play as such, but it imposes a hard constraint on what happens in the background.

And quirks impose a hard constraint, to use your term, on how you should roleplay your character. I mean, you can hardly take "Very soft spoken" as a quirk, and then have your character bellowing all the time.

Some perks offer you no benefit other than a guarantee of certain things from the GM. Some quirks offer no penalty other than a guarantee of certain things from a player. If you qualify one as mechanical, I think you should qualify the other as mechanical.

EDIT: For an on-topic example, you cannot take Broad-Minded as a quirk, and then suspiciously regard anyone who is stranger than you. You don't have to walk over and cheerfully offer them your throat (that's Xenophilia), but you should role-play a general acceptance and lack of discrimination.

[kenclary]

Compare with the quirk "Really likes vegetables."

While the argument could be made that, since vegetables are good for you, this is actually a benefit. Also, since your parents want you to eat your vegetables, they will like you more, so it is a benefit.

However, it is a quirk because it _limits choice_ on your part. The GM can rely, at least a little bit, on the notion that you will tend to choose vegetables over non-vegetables. And the GM and other players can rely on the notion that you will tend to roleplay a fondness for vegetables, which will hopefully add to everyone's roleplaying experience at the table. You get a point in exchange for this. To prevent abuse, you are only allowed to get up to 5 points for a collection of these.

Even "Really likes healing, and goes out of the way to heal injuries" is a quirk. Because it means you will tend to get healed _even when it might be better to wait for healing._

[Jeffr0]

Being "broad-minded" should be thought of as being a contrasting trait to "narrow minded".

Obviously, being narrow minded means that your character suffers from ideological blind spots-- these can be religious, atheistic, left wing, or right wing. It is a positive thing for a character to not be required to make knee-jerk responses when faced with certain stereotypical situations.

If you wanted to accentuate the negative aspects of broad mindedness, you would paint it as an inability to embrace an objectively true principle regardless of the evidence. Such a person (if he's wrong) is set to become a statistic or a character in a morality tale. Socially speaking, a broad minded person is not going to have an easy time becoming very far advanced in a specific religion, political group, or "cryptic alliance." Group leaders will not trust him and he may even be shunned if he fails to fast-talk his way out of situations where his lack of ideological purity becomes evident.

Socrates was broad minded, for example... and it became quite dangerous for him, indeed. Of course, he took it to at least the level of a -10 point Odious Personal Habit.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

And quirks impose a hard constraint, to use your term, on how you should roleplay your character. I mean, you can hardly take "Very soft spoken" as a quirk, and then have your character bellowing all the time.

No, but at any given time you can bellow. Likes Kittens does not compel you to run over and admire every kitten you encounter, Dislikes Kittens does not require you to avoid them at all costs. They're soft constraints. In general you should act on them, but on any given occasion you're not obliged to.

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Some perks offer you no benefit other than a guarantee of certain things from the GM. Some quirks offer no penalty other than a guarantee of certain things from a player. If you qualify one as mechanical, I think you should qualify the other as mechanical.

An every time guarantee, in every case I can think of. They're hard constraints which the GM is obligated to respect any time they apply. (Rule 0 aside, of course)

If Broad-Minded guarantees the player will behave a particular way in every instance of a given situation, I'm not seeing how. It demands nothing more specific than a general policy of tolerance, as far as I see.

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Who is misunderstanding? I think it's you.

Well, it would be kind of disturbing if you thought you were misunderstanding...

Am I missing something that makes this informative?

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

...Am I missing something that makes this informative?

I hope not.

[Ragitsu]

Originally Posted by Jeffr0

Being "broad-minded" should be thought of as being a contrasting trait to "narrow minded".

...

If you wanted to accentuate the negative aspects of broad mindedness, you would paint it as an inability to embrace an objectively true principle regardless of the evidence. Such a person (if he's wrong) is set to become a statistic or a character in a morality tale. Socially speaking, a broad minded person is not going to have an easy time becoming very far advanced in a specific religion, political group, or "cryptic alliance." Group leaders will not trust him and he may even be shunned if he fails to fast-talk his way out of situations where his lack of ideological purity becomes evident.

Is Chauvinistic (what I assume to be "narrow minded") equally disadvantageous then, or more so?

And to address your second point: well, not if the entire group has Broad-Minded :-D. Seriously speaking however, I can see the benefits of having a leader with the Quirk. Especially if they deal in trade agreements.

[Jeffr0]

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Is Chauvinistic (what I assume to be "narrow minded") equally disadvantageous then, or more so?

It depends on the context. Some form of chauvinism may be required to be a part of certain "country club" type groups-- the Traveller's Aid Society, maybe.

Broad-minded is usually a tag taken to mean that the person if willing to discuss, experiment with, or tolerate whatever is currently being objected to by "old fashioned" folks. Being broad minded will endear you to the "fringe" and hurt you with the "establishment". Being chauvinistic (to whatever degree) will do the reverse.

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

And to address your second point: well, not if the entire group has Broad-Minded :-D.

Ugh. Entire groups that think they're broad minded are often the most narrow minded people of all. "If you disagree with us, then you must be really narrow minded." Right.

Originally Posted by Ragitsu

Seriously speaking however, I can see the benefits of having a leader with the Quirk. Especially if they deal in trade agreements.

Yes, and a "broad-minded" mathematician will look for a solution in places where other guys wouldn't-- which leaves him more likely to walk into serendipitous solutions to unsolved problems.

Most people think of themselves as broadminded and see it in a positive way. I was simply pointing out the aspects of it that you could "hook" into in order to play up the more negative aspects of it.