The Witcher

[Grunker]

Allright, thanks! And yeah, I'm lucky in that regard :)

Thanks for the comments everybody. I'll look at posting an updated version within a couple of weeks.

[Grunker]

Hi. I'm trying to make the Signs as powers, but I'm running into trouble.

Aard and Igni are easy to make as Innate Attacks, but I'm having ALOT of difficulty figuring out what to do with Axii, Heliotrop, Igni and Yrden. Anybody?

[Grunker]

Bump - new version is up. Most should be in order now. I can't figure out how to do all the Signs as powers, so those will remain unchanged, until I figure something out.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Grunker

Bump - new version is up. Most should be in order now. I can't figure out how to do all the Signs as powers, so those will remain unchanged, until I figure something out.

Hey, I havn't read the books and it's been ages since I played the game, but if you post what signs you want and what you think they should do, it would be pretty easy to make them as Powers.

Personally I would make it a leveled power so it contains some fixed enhancements/limitations and a fixed cost per level. But then at the same time make it customisable, so for instance with Aard, one could focus on Area or knockback value or simply take more levels for more "damage".
I've done the same before with some "magical" abilitites for another setting and it worked great, gave the players the freedom to get what they wanted while still keeping it within the style of the powers.

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All Signs cost FP, right? But can they otherwise be used as much as you like.
Do they need handsigns, or spoken words? Do they need you to take a concentration action or is a simple attack actio nenough?


The different signs I can remember are limited to:

Aard: Knockback, area effect, little or no damage.
Ign: Fire damage, limited area effect.

[Grunker]

The Signs and what I want them to do is in the compendium in my sig :)

They require gestures, but no spoken words, and they don't require concentration!

So if you could a) have a look at it, or b) point me to where in the Basic Set where I should look, I'd be glad.

Problem is, only Igni and Aard are standard attacks.

Axii is a charm effect, Heliotrop protects against magic, Quen makes a protective bubble, and Yrden makes traps.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Grunker

The Signs and what I want them to do is in the compendium in my sig :)

They require gestures, but no spoken words, and they don't require concentration!

So if you could a) have a look at it, or b) point me to where in the Basic Set where I should look, I'd be glad.

Problem is, only Igni and Aard are standard attacks.

Axii is a charm effect, Heliotrop protects against magic, Quen makes a protective bubble, and Yrden makes traps.

Ok looked them over, and I'm sorry to say, but they are extremely overpowered for a very low pointcost.

And in addition they do not follow normal GURPS rules (example: normally knocback distance is based on "damage" vs. ST, and you get a DX roll at -1/y knocked back to keep standing).

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Before trying to recreate them using powers we need to figure out a few things.

First off is: I would suggest you do not try to replicate it's exact abilities in the game/books "to the letter" but rather jsut keep the general feel and ability of them.

Secondly: It might be a good idea to figure out roughly how many points it may costs, the rough powerlevel we are aiming at. Is a sign supposed to be only 5 pts per level, so it only costs 25 pts to be "the best there is" in a single power? Thats not very many points for mastermanship. But it allows any witcher to master all of the signs for only 150 pts. Are all experienced witchers supposed to be good at all the signs? What points-level do you expect a witcher game to be played at?

Third and last: "Signs cannot be used while wearing armor of material heavier than leather!". For one "heavier" doesn't make much sense as a leather comes in many variants, where the heaviest leather is heavier than chain or even some plate armour. It sounds all too much like an artificial D&D/Computer game excuse for making balance. GURPS handles this by basing spells on FP, and wearing heavy armour (steel, iron, leather or kevlar) is all heavy and would so drain your FP jsut as Magic does, so you usually have to choose. So there is no reason for this limitation.

[Grunker]

Originally Posted by Maz

Ok looked them over, and I'm sorry to say, but they are extremely overpowered for a very low pointcost.

And in addition they do not follow normal GURPS rules (example: normally knocback distance is based on "damage" vs. ST, and you get a DX roll at -1/y knocked back to keep standing).

---

Before trying to recreate them using powers we need to figure out a few things.

Alright, one by one:

Originally Posted by Maz

First off is: I would suggest you do not try to replicate it's exact abilities in the game/books "to the letter" but rather jsut keep the general feel and ability of them.

I agree, and probably would have, but my extreme limit as to the knowledge for powers and effects (see: Knockback) hindered me in this. I consider my ability to read rules fairly good, but I must admit I'm having difficulty deciphering the Basic set when it comes to powers. I've looked at it a couple of times last week, but I can't really find anything; the same applies for the general rules on the effects you mention.

Originally Posted by Maz

Secondly: It might be a good idea to figure out roughly how many points it may costs, the rough powerlevel we are aiming at. Is a sign supposed to be only 5 pts per level, so it only costs 25 pts to be "the best there is" in a single power? Thats not very many points for mastermanship. But it allows any witcher to master all of the signs for only 150 pts. Are all experienced witchers supposed to be good at all the signs? What points-level do you expect a witcher game to be played at?

My game starts off with PCs build for 110-125 points. The Witcher is build for 155 points. A few notes on the power level: There really aren't very many witchers, so sadly, we can't say that much about them in general. However, three or four of the Witchers are at least trained in all the signs. Geralt's overpowering combat abilities to boot, I'd say he was build for 500-600 points maybe... And that's with training - not mastermanship - in all Signs.

So I guess we're aiming at 5-10 points per level... It wouldn't bother me if they had differantiated cost - that is, Aard maybe costing 5 points per level, and Yrden 10, for example?

Originally Posted by Maz

Third and last: "Signs cannot be used while wearing armor of material heavier than leather!". For one "heavier" doesn't make much sense as a leather comes in many variants, where the heaviest leather is heavier than chain or even some plate armour. It sounds all too much like an artificial D&D/Computer game excuse for making balance. GURPS handles this by basing spells on FP, and wearing heavy armour (steel, iron, leather or kevlar) is all heavy and would so drain your FP jsut as Magic does, so you usually have to choose. So there is no reason for this limitation

Okay, this is pretty lame granted, but I have an excuse :P

I found out I was running this campaign the week before we had to build characters - which means both the Redania setting and the rules were developed in one week (while I was both working and studying). Slipups such as that one should be removed now, with the exception of the armor limitation (which I didn't notice was still there).

I appreciate your help very, very much! I would be great if I could perfect the compendium, and as I'm probably going to spit out more of these kind of projects, it's probably good that I get the full understanding of the rules now rather than later.

- Casper

PS. Can you point to the relevant chapters in the Basic set? I'll read those, then try to make the Signs and powers, and you can maybe take a look at them then?

[vicky_molokh]

Why not say it was a metaphor, and was supposed to mean 'not useable above Light Encumbrance'?

[Grunker]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Why not say it was a metaphor, and was supposed to mean 'not useable above Light Encumbrance'?

To my players or..?

My players realise the compendium was a first draft, and a few things are going to be changed for tommorow (where we'll play for the first time). But it only really matters for the witchers - of which I have one in my group.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by Grunker

I consider my ability to read rules fairly good, but I must admit I'm having difficulty deciphering the Basic set when it comes to powers. I've looked at it a couple of times last week, but I can't really find anything; the same applies for the general rules on the effects you mention.

Well I'm probably not helping with that confusigng either, seeing as the word "powers" isn't used at all in the Basic set, so it's understandeble you can't find anything about "Powers".

The word powers is used to describe advantages (Innate attack, DR, Detect and so on) that are modified using enhancements and limitations.

So really a "power" is any advantage in the Basic set. The most important chapter for creating "powers" are the one right after Advantages, the one about modifiers; limitations and enhancements.


However to really start playing around with "powers" you should get "GURPS: Powers", it is all about playing around with, and modifying existing advantages. But it's probably not nessecary for this campaing, and it is a very crunchy book, better to get hang of the basics first.

Originally Posted by Grunker

My game starts off with PCs build for 110-125 points. The Witcher is build for 155 points. A few notes on the power level: There really aren't very many witchers, so sadly, we can't say that much about them in general. However, three or four of the Witchers are at least trained in all the signs. Geralt's overpowering combat abilities to boot, I'd say he was build for 500-600 points maybe... And that's with training - not mastermanship - in all Signs.

So I guess we're aiming at 5-10 points per level... It wouldn't bother me if they had differantiated cost - that is, Aard maybe costing 5 points per level, and Yrden 10, for example?

Ok, 155 pts wont be able to afford many Signs methinks, even at 5 pts per level. While 500-600 allows for almost mastery in all, even if they become more expensive after we play around with them. So around 5 pts sounds like an ok goal.
About different cost, I was about to suggest that as well, because Aard for instance is probably going to be pretty cheap... but some might want 10-20 levels of it. While some of the others are going to be really expensive and are probably better off as different abilities altogether rather than a leveled power. Some of them you can't really make as leveled. But lets see how it goes.

Originally Posted by Grunker

Okay, this is pretty lame granted, but I have an excuse :P

Ehe ok, that is a good excuse and sorry to sound a little harsh, I just often see people here on the forums trying to artificially restrict "mages" using armour, because "thats how it's supposed to be", it's what they are used to from D&D/Computer games... without really considering "why" or "how". And I can udnerstand it and don't mind it as much, but then it should be made as Molokh suggest or as a vow or a limitation on the powers or some sorts. But ok, out it goes.



And np on the help. Have to help a fellow dane out right? ;) Although I am currently away from all my books, they are in Odense, I am in Copenhagen. So can't give precise numbers on anything until the middle of next week (where the SJ forums are probably a bit on/off)