[Ultra-Tech] Robots' skill levels

[Agemegos]

I'm trying to work out whether it is best for a particular spaceship to be crewed by humans or robots, in particular for routine maintenance, damage control, gunnery (beams) and a few other things that make routine skill rolls but that don't make tactical decisions or exercise judgement. Ultra-Tech p. 24–25 tells me how much hardware I need (for dedicated AI), and what it costs, and what the IQ of the robots is. UT p 86 tells me what a worker robot body costs. But neither tells me what skill levels I get for that cost.

How much is a robot turret gunner? What skill level can I get running a robot turret gunner on the ship's 'frame?

How good is a robot spacer/mechanic?

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by Brett

I'm trying to work out whether it is best for a particular spaceship to be crewed by humans or robots, in particular for routine maintenance, damage control, gunnery (beams) and a few other things that make routine skill rolls but that don't make tactical decisions or exercise judgement. Ultra-Tech p. 24–25 tells me how much hardware I need (for dedicated AI), and what it costs, and what the IQ of the robots is. UT p 86 tells me what a worker robot body costs. But neither tells me what skill levels I get for that cost.

How much is a robot turret gunner? What skill level can I get running a robot turret gunner on the ship's 'frame?

How good is a robot spacer/mechanic?

You've skipped a box, can't remember where, but the skills increase the cost of the AI.

[Langy]

See Purchasing Machines on Page 29 of Ultra-Tech.

EDIT: Specifically, increased IQ, skills, etc., increases software cost by 5% per character point spent.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Langy

See Purchasing Machines on Page 29 of Ultra-Tech.

EDIT: Specifically, increased IQ, skills, etc., increases software cost by 5% per character point spent.

Hmm. So if the Imperial Navy hires its own programmers, then putting up to a few dozen AI techbots on each of several thousand assorted ships is going to be a lot cheaper than automation. Total automation costs $5 million per crewman replaced, high automation $1 million per crewman. Robotic crewmen look like costing less than $20,000 each.

TL 10 techbot chassis (ST 8, DX 12) — $ 10,000
TL 10 personal computer (Complexity 7) — $1,000
NAI software (IQ 10) — $1,000

IQ + 2 — $2,000
Armoury/TL10 (Heavy weapons) IQ +2 — $ 400
Armoury/TL10 (Vehicle Armour) IQ +2 — $ 400
Electrician/TL10 IQ + 2 — $ 400
Electronics Repair/TL10 (Communications) IQ + 2 — $ 400
Electronics Repair/TL10 (Computers) IQ + 2 — $ 400
Electronics Repair/TL10 (Sensors) IQ + 2 — $ 400
Housekeeping IQ + 2 — $ 200
Mechanic/TL 10^ (Antimatter Engine) IQ + 2 — $ 400
Mechanic/TL 10^ (High-Performance Spacecraft) IQ + 2 — $ 400
Mechanic/TL 10 (Life Support) IQ + 2 — $ 400
Mechanic/TL 10 (Robotics) IQ + 2 — $ 400
Mechanic/TL 10^ (Stardrive) IQ + 2 — $ 400
Spacer IQ + 2 — $ 200

Total $ 18,800

[Icelander]

I really think that there are enough known unknowns and unknown unknowns involved here to make any number a SWAG at the very best.

Any number you find plausible is probably going to be equally plausible as the formula in Ultra-Tech (which is simple, but bass-awkward in that adding desirable disadvantages lowers the price just as much as adding desirable Advantages raises it).

It will have the added benefit of being adjustable to precisely whatever economic reality you want to represent. If robot mechanics are undesirable, make them more expensive than humans who are able to do the same job equally well. If you want them, make them cheaper.

I don't have a problem with believing that things like moral judgment, risk analysis incorporating psychological factors at work on other actors, decision-making requiring empathy or just the ability to adjust to rapidly changing, chaotic and destructive parameters (combat damage control) are extremely expensive in a robot but come pretty naturally to a trained human.

[nik1979]

Maybe you wont need to give these robot skills, instead just give them quality bonus (UT25) and assign the bonus and the roll to who ever is managing the systems.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I really think that there are enough known unknowns and unknown unknowns involved here to make any number a SWAG at the very best.

Any number you find plausible is probably going to be equally plausible as the formula in Ultra-Tech (which is simple, but bass-awkward in that adding desirable disadvantages lowers the price just as much as adding desirable Advantages raises it).

Sure. But it is always wise to read the RAW before making house rules.

[Trachmyr]

There is also a third option which I use extensively in my own campaign: Direct Neural Interface.

If Direct Neural Interfaces are fully implemented amogst all crew, you gain many potent options. Obviously control over stations no longer require a crew station at all, crew members can "get to" their posts as fast as an AI. Robotic Bodies controlled by full VR replace more fragile protective suits, but can still be controlled by a human crew (or augmented by NAI or SAI as needed without requiring additional systems). By having enough "shells" around a ship (or city), a single fire-control or repelling group can cover a large area, thus allowing for the training of high-skill specialists over a large number of generalists.

This system can be part of a Full VR systems that allows intensive training, but just as importantly allows a ship to contain significant Recreational, Commercial, Education and Training facilities, all contained in VR, thus not requiring any of the ship's precious mass. Likewise Habitiation areas can be augmented to turn otherwise spartan conditions into luxury living... not to mention that a lot of equipment and gear caqn be VR only, thus significantly reducing costs and space requirements. Everything from TV's, to Crewstations, to Meeting Rooms, etc. Holographics can be easily and cheaply incorporated through VR or Augmented Reality, allowing for their exsistance in the "Hardest-Science" of campaigns. Finally, since VR goods actually have no costs other than what "Intellectual Property" assigns to them, this allows for a equality of classes and a post-consumerism that rivals full-scale mature nanotech.

Cost is negiligiable when you begin to calculate what is saved... An Implant is $14K at TL9, $5K at TL10 including the surgery... yet imagine the number of real facilities and equipment that are no longer needed on higher-population ships.

Another beautiful result of full VR and Augmented Reality networking is that you gain many of the benefits of a AI society, but Humans remain viable instead of obsolete.

[Pomphis]

Originally Posted by Brett

Total automation costs $5 million per crewman replaced, high automation $1 million per crewman. Robotic crewmen look like costing less than $20,000 each.

Assuming that Spaceships and UT are fully compatible. In 3e total automation doubled the hull cost, and required at least one robot brain. What is full automation if not at least one robot brain, plus hardware to do what the crewmen would do ? If it´s bolted in place it should be even cheaper than mobile techbots. If you go from the very abstract Starships to more detailed rules I would prefer UT costs. OTOH you should then start to care about things like volume, surface and shape of the ships, IMO.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Trachmyr

There is also a third option which I use extensively in my own campaign: Direct Neural Interface.Another beautiful result of full VR and Augmented Reality networking is that you gain many of the benefits of a AI society, but Humans remain viable instead of obsolete.

Not on spaceships. Each human requires at minimum 1/4 of a bunkroom, and that costs $37,500 in a large ship. Throw in food and air supplies or a share of a garden, sickbays, etc., not to mention wages. An $18,800 robot is cheap in comparison.