Comabt questions...

[ladyarcana55]

Here I go again! You guys knew it was coming eventually, LOL

I tried to put a tag but I couldn't figure out what tag this would go under, Tips or Resources didn't feel right...

Anyway...

I am totally confused on combat. Specifically vessel to vessel combat. Using the common Songs, is it possible to force a Celestial out of their vessel? Also, at what point in combat does the Celestial start taking damage? Reading through the rules it sounds like while they are in the vessel no Celestial damage will be take. But what if the vessel has been 'killed'? It sounds to me as though the Celestial can stay in the vessel even if it were hacked to pieces and they would still be safe from any Celestial damage.

Could someone explain this to me? I am totally lost. Thanks!

Darn it...I just realized I misspelled the title of this thread, how embarrassing...

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by ladyarcana55

I am totally confused on combat. Specifically vessel to vessel combat. Using the common Songs, is it possible to force a Celestial out of their vessel? Also, at what point in combat does the Celestial start taking damage? Reading through the rules it sounds like while they are in the vessel no Celestial damage will be take. But what if the vessel has been 'killed'? It sounds to me as though the Celestial can stay in the vessel even if it were hacked to pieces and they would still be safe from any Celestial damage.

Could someone explain this to me? I am totally lost. Thanks!

The only Song that will force a Celestial out of their Vessel is the Corporeal Song of Banishing, which is secret and known only to a few Superiors and their trusted servitors. The sorcerous Ritual of Exorcism can also force a demon or Ethereal out of a Vessel, but not an angel. No amount of damage to a Vessel will ever cause Celestial damage, nor can anyone do Celestial damage to someone in a Vessel (Exception: Calabim with the Calabite of Lust attunement). If a Vessel is killed, the inhabitant goes into Trauma, if they have a Heart, Limbo if they don't (Exception: Malakim, who just snap back to their hearts, but suffer no Trauma.)

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by DAlillama

The only Song that will force a Celestial out of their Vessel is the Corporeal Song of Banishing...

How about manipulating them out of their Vessel? The Celestial Song of Charm can reduce a subject's Will IIRC, which in theory could make it easier to "persuade" someone to take celestial form.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

How about manipulating them out of their Vessel? The Celestial Song of Charm can reduce a subject's Will IIRC, which in theory could make it easier to "persuade" someone to take celestial form.

This is a good point. You could also make it unpleasant to be in a Vessel, by breaking their limbs, say, so the only way to move is to go Celestial (Or use certain Songs, but hey).

[ladyarcana55]

How about the Celestial Song of Shattering? It says that it will cause the Celestial to "bleed" out Essence. Does this apply if they are in their vessel? How about the Celestial Song of Light? Does that effect the Celestial if it's in their vessel?

[Dalillama]

You are correct, Celestial Shattering can also potentially do Soul hits to a Celestial in a Vessel. Celestial Light does Body damage to Corporeal targets, including Vessels; It only does Soul damage if the target is in Celestial Form.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by ladyarcana55

Here I go again! You guys knew it was coming eventually, LOL

I tried to put a tag but I couldn't figure out what tag this would go under, Tips or Resources didn't feel right...

I just added a tag to the list, and tagged this thread with it. (That service gains a Geas/1, no? <g>)

Originally Posted by DAlillama

No amount of damage to a Vessel will ever cause Celestial damage, nor can anyone do Celestial damage to someone in a Vessel (Exception: Calabim with the Calabite of Lust attunement).

Or someone with a Firey Sword. In Nomine, p. 71: "When its user manifests in celestial form, the sword does celestial damage!" It says nothing about the target's form.

[JCD]

It is strongly in the interests of a Celestial to only use corporeal combat. There is no percentage in going Celestial, where the combat can involve real loss, much greater then losing a meat sack. (Granted, a demon won't want to lose even that, having finally earned a trip to Disneyland, but you don't always have a choice)

One caveat: If you have a lot of Forces, you can bully your way through a lot. However, all one need do to stay invulnerable is to stay in a vessel.

Two caveat: The Calabim of Andrealphus can attack Celestially if they can touch the person, even if they are in a vessel. If the person is already Celestial, they can use their Resonance normally at range to attack Celestially. Calabim are really bad to be around if you are Celestial.

[tHEhERETIC]

Purity, a Faith attunement, will work unless I've been painfully lied to. I can't find where I put the text of it. It's not in Superiors 3...dammit now you're making me check my notes!

[ladyarcana55]

Originally Posted by tHEhERETIC

Purity, a Faith attunement, will work unless I've been painfully lied to. I can't find where I put the text of it. It's not in Superiors 3...dammit now you're making me check my notes!

According to LC it's a Secret Song, not an attunement. But if you say it's also an attunement, I will go with it.

But I am wondering...

I don't have LR so I am guessing at this point, but are the rules different if the Celestial is TRAPPED in the vessel, via Song or Relic? I am wondering why one would trap an enemy in their vessel.