Medieval Horse Types and Traits

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Blood Legend

My want to include these in my game are only hampered by how little I know on the subject of horses. Very well written though.

That's what sourcebooks are for. It shouldn't take much effort to produce a book that will allow typical GMs, even ones who've never seen a horse, to present mounts as something else than anachronistic cars in their campaigns.

I know that each type needs a longer flavour text and rules for upkeep and care are missing. I direct you to the Pyramid article Horse Sense by a Mr. Mortimer for both, with my 4e stats replacing the 3e stats in the article. It's even a free article, I think, and should have survived the Pyramid changes.

[Celti]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I know that each type needs a longer flavour text and rules for upkeep and care are missing. I direct you to the Pyramid article Horse Sense by a Mr. Mortimer for both, with my 4e stats replacing the 3e stats in the article. It's even a free article, I think, and should have survived the Pyramid changes.

Indeed, it is free: Horse Sense.
For those that have and prefer the downloaded archives, it's 2004/0603.html.

I'll most definitely be using these in my campaigns - thank you, Icelander!

[Figleaf23]

Thanks for these stats, Icelander. I expect they'll prove very useful.

Edit: Just a note regarding the Horse Sense article where it suggests --

In GURPS, the skill of the farrier is covered by Blacksmith (p. B53), but many also have the Veterinary skill (p. B47) with a horse specialization.

Personally, I would take a different approach using a routine Blacksmith roll to cover making the shoe, and a non-routine Animal Handling (Equine) roll for actually shoeing the beast.

[moldymaltquaffer]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Personally, I would take a different approach using a routine Blacksmith roll to cover making the shoe, and a non-routine Animal Handling (Equine) roll for actually shoeing the beast.

The shoes need to be fitted to the horse, which means bending and beating them into the appropriate shape, holding them up to the hoof to compare, and then beating away some more. Then nailing them on, and bending the nails over. A farrier should definately have Animal Handling, but most of the job falls under Blacksmithing.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by moldymaltquaffer

The shoes need to be fitted to the horse, which means bending and beating them into the appropriate shape, holding them up to the hoof to compare, and then beating away some more. Then nailing them on, and bending the nails over. A farrier should definately have Animal Handling, but most of the job falls under Blacksmithing.

Yep. Farrier is not a skill, it is an occupation that involves multiple skills. All would have both Blacksmith and Animal Handling and many would also have Veterinary and Riding (Horse).

[hal]

Just as a point of reference, I've seen riding horses listed as being worth a pound (ie 240 silver pennies) which at the going rate of $4 GURPS per silver penny would be worth about $960. Leeway should be given to account for the fact the "historical reference" for the price of the horse was relevant to THAT particular horse at that particular time in that particular location. Likewise, I've seen references to warhorses being worth 14 pounds in value, which makes them worth in the vicinity of about $13,440 GURPS. The Horse Sense article freely available from Pyramid set my teeth on edge with the blanket assertion that warhorses should cost about $100,000 etc.

Cost is relative. If by the standards of the time, the average unskilled laborer earned a silver penny a day, or perhaps between 1 and 2 silver pennies per day (a Thatcher earned about 2d or 2 silver pennies per day) - then a 14 pound warhorse would run roughly 4.6 year's income for the common laborer. If $100,000 is about 4.6 year's labor, then it makes sense - otherwise, it is a bit out of whack :(

None the less - I can see the effort being made to distinguish between types of horses, and I applaud the effort. After reading Horse Sense, I can see too that the author of that piece, although perhaps not entirely accurate in some areas, was relatively accurate where it counted the most.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by hal

Just as a point of reference, I've seen riding horses listed as being worth a pound (ie 240 silver pennies) which at the going rate of $4 GURPS per silver penny would be worth about $960.

I've postulated riding horses at between $500 for a small and little trained one and 1,200 for a reasonable quality one.

Originally Posted by hal

The Horse Sense article freely available from Pyramid set my teeth on edge with the blanket assertion that warhorses should cost about $100,000 etc.

I went with coursers costing up to five times the price of a cow and destriers up to seven times the price of a courser. Modified by a lot of factors, of course, but if we take a typical courser and a typical destrier, that isn't far off in these rules.

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by hal

Cost is relative. If by the standards of the time, the average unskilled laborer earned a silver penny a day, or perhaps between 1 and 2 silver pennies per day (a Thatcher earned about 2d or 2 silver pennies per day) - then a 14 pound warhorse would run roughly 4.6 year's income for the common laborer. If $100,000 is about 4.6 year's labor, then it makes sense - otherwise, it is a bit out of whack :(

As usual, I'd like to point out that the development and adoption of the horse collar between the 10th and 12th centuries (exactly when depended on where), almost exactly in the middle of the Mideaval period. Previous to the horse collar, horses in Europe were tools and toys of the wealthy, pretty much only good for warfare and personal transportation for those who didn't feel like walking. After the horse collar, horses become much more useful, dragging plows, carts, and wagons more efficiently than oxen. Horses become desirable farm equipment, essentially.

As horses become useful for more things, the number of people willing to pay for a useful horse goes up. More people start breeding and raising them, and the relative price starts to go down.

So horse prices can vary wildly over the European Middle Ages, depending on factors like the horse collar, whether or not there's been war or famine recently, and so on. I wouldn't be shocked to see either really high numbers or really low ones.

[capnq]

Originally Posted by Celti

Indeed, it is free: Horse Sense.
For those that have and prefer the downloaded archives, it's 2004/0603.html.

Roleplayer #21 had a lengthy article about designing horses as characters. That was for 3rd ed., and isn't free, but it was written by someone who owned horses.

[Skarg]

Icelander, this is great!

The only thing I'd want further would be a table which shows what the typical range is in each class, which is a quibble I have about GURPS templates in general. I.e., these seem to be specific examples within a class, but then it takes some deduction to determine how much to vary each piece or not for other examples of the same class. You give good descriptions though, so it's relatively easy.

The costs look good to me, but it's been a long time since I analysed any horse costs.

Originally Posted by Icelander

... I know that each type needs a longer flavour text and rules for upkeep and care are missing. I direct you to the Pyramid article Horse Sense by a Mr. Mortimer for both, with my 4e stats replacing the 3e stats in the article. It's even a free article, I think, and should have survived the Pyramid changes.

Ah, I was about to ask where the good horse rules were in 4e. I guess they’re still in that awesome classic Pyramid article.