Missing Prereq on Speed-Reading

[nik1979]

well nerdvana I guess there is no really strong argument against your point. speed reading does require someone to read. heck a person can't even learn the skill in the first place without being able to read for practice!

although the psych test for memory is made up of recalling random non-representative symbols arranged in the proper order. I get what kromm means that one can try to memorize quickly alien symbols. (Memorize meant only only for temporary memory)

Maybe Observation (according to the description of the more recent clarification of it) may be the proper skill in that feat.

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by nik1979

well nerdvana I guess there is no really strong argument against your point. speed reading does require someone to read. heck a person can't even learn the skill in the first place without being able to read for practice!

although the psych test for memory is made up of recalling random non-representative symbols arranged in the proper order. I get what kromm means that one can try to memorize quickly alien symbols. (Memorize meant only only for temporary memory)

Maybe Observation (according to the description of the more recent clarification of it) may be the proper skill in that feat.

I whole heartedly agree. Also, perhaps a new skill "Speed Memorizing" which defaults generously off of Observation and close to 1-to-1 with Speed Reading might be considered?

Question though... how would this memorizing quickly not be a form of Eidetic memory (already covered in the rules)?

[Anders]

Buy it up as an Average technique defaulting to Observation, and let the points be converted to Eidetic Memory once you reach Observation+5. The art of memory is eminently learnable.

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Buy it up as an Average technique defaulting to Observation, and let the points be converted to Eidetic Memory once you reach Observation+5. The art of memory is eminently learnable.

Just make Eidetic Memory leveled [1/level] if you like. The first level is effectively a perk; you automatically succeed at ordinary memory tasks and get +1 for attempting to remember precise details.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

(emphasis above is from the book)

So... seems like the rules stand up for me also.

*shrug* I’m OK assuming that Kromm knows what he is talking about in his earlier response. I’d say that if someone wanted to memorize characters that he couldn’t comprehend (whether due to Illiteracy, or just unfamiliarity), that he would be slower than a person who knew the language, but Speed-Reading would improve that.

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

*shrug* I’m OK assuming that Kromm knows what he is talking about in his earlier response. I’d say that if someone wanted to memorize characters that he couldn’t comprehend (whether due to Illiteracy, or just unfamiliarity), that he would be slower than a person who knew the language, but Speed-Reading would improve that.

I don't have to assume anything; I know from my own education that Kromm's answer fails numerous reality tests. Unless anything paradigm-shattering has occured in cogntivie psychology over the last week or so, there is ample evidence that remembering meaningless strands of characters or even letters is completely different from speed-reading. Does anyone think they have a shot at recalling a string of 0s and 1s in enough detail that you could later write it down and decode it? At any speed?

Speed-reading is a task of overlearning. In fact, I can show you some areas where learning to speed-read will make you less efficient at observing non-word phenomena. The classic example is the Stroop test.

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

I don't have to assume anything; I know from my own education that Kromm's answer fails numerous reality tests. Unless anything paradigm-shattering has occured in cogntivie psychology over the last week or so, there is ample evidence that remembering meaningless strands of characters or even letters is completely different from speed-reading. Does anyone think they have a shot at recalling a string of 0s and 1s in enough detail that you could later write it down and decode it? At any speed?

Speed-reading is a task of overlearning. In fact, I can show you some areas where learning to speed-read will make you less efficient at observing non-word phenomena. The classic example is the Stroop test.

Thanks for that eloquent answer. For those who wish to, here's a good page on the Stroop Test. This does help illustrate my point. Speed reading is reading the phrases for their content... if you are illiterate and the text is jibberish (and thus has no content) how can you be speed-reading?

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

I seem to remember differently...

"This ability only exists in fiction" and "I have never met anyone who had this ability" are two different things, yes.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Buy it up as an Average technique defaulting to Observation, and let the points be converted to Eidetic Memory once you reach Observation+5. The art of memory is eminently learnable.

Inborn eidetic/photographic memory ought to work differently from an aquired mnemotechnique.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

I don't have to assume anything; I know from my own education that Kromm's answer fails numerous reality tests. Unless anything paradigm-shattering has occured in cogntivie psychology over the last week or so, there is ample evidence that remembering meaningless strands of characters or even letters is completely different from speed-reading.

Kromm’s post (and my reply to nerdvana) doesn't have to do with a RW definition of speed-reading, but how it works in the game. If he says that the skill is supposed to allow for such, I don’t see a real value in arguing that that’s not what it says. You might have some more traction in contesting whether it should be so, but that appears to merely be a matter of taste, and a problem easily rectified by houserule.