Knockback against opponents with Flight, Clinging, Catfall

[nerfninja]

Hello, I'm starting a campaign shortly and one of my character's primary attacks is a massive knockback attack. Specifically, it does 2d x 10 (No Wounding, No Blunt Trauma, Double Knockback). If I did my math right, I can potentially send an elephant flying 5 yards or a standard goon around 28 yards.

I was planning to do some playtesting to get a feel for knockback and collision rules, and some interesting questions came up.

If I understand correctly, if the attack is not successfully defended, then my knockback damage applies and there is no resistance roll whatsoever (Go Flying Goon!). Opponents suffering knockback test to see if they fall down at a penalty for each yard of knockback beyond the first. If they collide with anything in the way, they will suffer collision damage.

If the knockback does not bring them into contact with any terrain, do they suffer collision damage with the ground? Any suggestions for my GM on how to calculate that if so?

What if the opponent has an advantage like Flight, Clinging, or Catfall. Can these powers be used to mitigate collision damage or reduce knockback distance? Our campaign involves enough fantasy martial arts and Powers type abilities for me to expect to encounter a situation like this.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by nerfninja

Hello, I'm starting a campaign shortly and one of my character's primary attacks is a massive knockback attack. Specifically, it does 2d x 10 (No Wounding, No Blunt Trauma, Double Knockback). If I did my math right, I can potentially send an elephant flying 5 yards or a standard goon around 28 yards.

I was planning to do some playtesting to get a feel for knockback and collision rules, and some interesting questions came up.

If I understand correctly, if the attack is not successfully defended, then my knockback damage applies and there is no resistance roll whatsoever (Go Flying Goon!). Opponents suffering knockback test to see if they fall down at a penalty for each yard of knockback beyond the first. If they collide with anything in the way, they will suffer collision damage.

If the knockback does not bring them into contact with any terrain, do they suffer collision damage with the ground? Any suggestions for my GM on how to calculate that if so?

What if the opponent has an advantage like Flight, Clinging, or Catfall. Can these powers be used to mitigate collision damage or reduce knockback distance? Our campaign involves enough fantasy martial arts and Powers type abilities for me to expect to encounter a situation like this.

Flight would definitely trump knockback if it could adjust the course in time.

Clinging would come into play under unusual circumstances. Catfal might well apply.

The damage comes from sudden impact, if you went the indicated distance of the Knockback, it's safe to assume you got rid of the acquired kinetic energy safely and hit the ground slowly enough.

OTOH a 5 yard 45 degree downward KB result where the ground is only 2 yards away will hurt.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

The damage comes from sudden impact, if you went the indicated distance of the Knockback, it's safe to assume you got rid of the acquired kinetic energy safely and hit the ground slowly enough.

I don't think this is the case. I mean, it's roughly similar to someone falling off a motorcycle, you're gonna lose a lot of skin and maybe break some bones. The only thing ablating KE is drag forces, otherwise it's just a factor of how large your initial impulse momentum was and how far you get before gravity manages to pull you into contact with the pavement.

[nerfninja]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

Flight would definitely trump knockback if it could adjust the course in time.

How do you account for "adjusting the course in time?" Would they be knocked back up to their top flying speed for second and then regain control in mid air on their own turn? As I understand it the knockback distance is also the velocity in yards/sec (as its used to calculate collision damage).

This is assuming our flier is not restricted by Newtonian or winged flight or no hovering.

Would you reduce the knockback distance, by some factor? Perhaps Basic Move would act as DR against Knockback for a flying unit, since that's how much inertial control they have?

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

Flight would definitely trump knockback if it could adjust the course in time.

"in time" for knockback purposes is instant. You can't counter knockback any time your ground move is higher than the knockback, I don't see why air move would be any different.

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

Clinging would come into play under unusual circumstances. Catfal might well apply.

Basic catfall might be helpful on a collision, I never thought about it, but It certainly wouldn't reduce the amount of knockback. Clinging is problematic... it transfers the energy that should be expressed as flying off into wherever INTO your body. I'd think that would convert the knockback into some function of direct physical damage as you get "stretched"

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

The damage comes from sudden impact, if you went the indicated distance of the Knockback, it's safe to assume you got rid of the acquired kinetic energy safely and hit the ground slowly enough.

If you are knocked back the full distance, and then fall, there is no collision, if you hit anything in the span knockback moves you, you are moving at 'full amount of calculated knockback per second' and take ollision damage accordingly

[Crakkerjakk]

If someone had flight I'd allow an aerobatics roll to halve damage, with a crit success giving no damage.

[David Johnston2]

[QUOTE=nerfninja;792997]

If the knockback does not bring them into contact with any terrain, do they suffer collision damage with the ground?

No. They'd just kind of skid along the ground until they came to a stop. You need to am for trees and walls behind your target.

What if the opponent has an advantage like Flight, Clinging, or Catfall.

Flight wouldn't help except by making it difficult to hit the target in a way that will make it collide with anything. I would say that Clinging would double your ST for resisting knockback...but only if you happen to be standing on a clingable surface (for example, not dirt) and are actually using your clinging (which would of course halve your movement and mean that you are walking kind of funny.) As for Catfall, I think you'd need to make an acrobatics roll or something to bring it into play since you aren't actually falling.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No. They'd just kind of skid along the ground until they came to a stop. You need to am for trees and walls behind your target.

...In the real world, when you 'just kind of skid along the ground' you're probably going to suffer a lot of superficial injuries, and potentially worse.

[nerfninja]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

If someone had flight I'd allow an aerobatics roll to halve damage, with a crit success giving no damage.

Halve Damage from collision or halve damage from knockback?

[nerfninja]

[QUOTE=David Johnston2;793058]

Originally Posted by nerfninja

No. They'd just kind of skid along the ground until they came to a stop. You need to aim[edit] for trees and walls behind your target.

Does one actually aim the direction they send someone with knockback? As I understand they simply fly directly away from you. The only way to 'aim' is to position oneself before attacking.

Assuming a 2-dimensional world, that's simple enough, but what if there is some arc to the knockback trajectory? Would they not take falling damage at least based on the max height of the arc?

The motorcycle accident analogy has me convinced. If I were GM'ing which I'm not, I think I'd apply collision damage with the ground, perhaps with some reduction (halve? or double DR?).