They should really fix that in Cabaret Chicks on Ice!

[Mgellis]

I'm not sure if there is a section for vehicles in the new Low-Tech, but...

In Basic Set, High-Tech, Ultra-Tech, and Changing Times, the baseline formula for vehicles was HP = 4 x cube root (weight in lbs.).

However, in Fantasy, the formula was HP = 8 x cube root (weight in lbs.)

I imagine the reason was that "unpowered" vehicles are "homogeneous," but this creates serious game balance and plausibility issues.

A 500-ton TL 4 sailing ship should not have the same HP as a 4,000-ton TL 8 Perry-class frigate.

A 500-ton TL 4 sailing ship is NOT a homogeneous block of wood. It is an extremely complex machine...it just happens to rely on wind power rather than diesel power or steam power or whatever.

So, if there are vehicles in Low-Tech, I hope this is taken into account when determining their HP.

Mark

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Mgellis

I'm not sure if there is a section for vehicles in the new Low-Tech, but...

In Basic Set, High-Tech, Ultra-Tech, and Changing Times, the baseline formula for vehicles was HP = 4 x cube root (weight in lbs.).

However, in Fantasy, the formula was HP = 8 x cube root (weight in lbs.)

I imagine the reason was that "unpowered" vehicles are "homogeneous," but this creates serious game balance and plausibility issues.

I'll avoid making any comment that could be construed as revealing anything from the manuscript.

All I'll say is that do you really believe that if there was even the slightest chance that the Fantasy stats not being fixed, I wouldn't say something? ;)

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Mgellis

So, if there are vehicles in Low-Tech, I hope this is taken into account when determining their HP.

It has been, after discussion with Kromm. Silly me, I took it that when the Basic Set said that vehicles with engines or other complex mechanisms were Unliving, it was implying that a rowboat or an oxcart was Homogenous. But then I checked the stats in the Basic Set and found that it was not so. I would not have done it that way, but it IS a precedent, so I've made the necessary changes.

Bill

[doctorevilbrain]

Icelander, why do you call Low Tech "Cabaret Chicks On Ice" ?

[Diomedes]

It's been an unofficial nickname for Low Tech 4e for years.

[Anaraxes]

Though the usage has mutated a bit over time to mean sometimes "a future GURPS book never actually to appear".

The name originally comes from a offhand reference by Kromm.

And whether we title it Low-Tech, Fantasy-Tech, or Cabaret Chicks on Ice is wholly immaterial to the issue of whether we make fixes or not.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?p=200184

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by doctorevilbrain

Icelander, why do you call Low Tech "Cabaret Chicks On Ice" ?

Gather close to the fire, youngsters, and I'll spin ye a yarn.

'twas in the dark and ignorant days of yore, when the world was young, the Basic Set was but new writ and fearful creatures with blood-drinking fangs roamed the plains, a hunting for unwary youngsters who did not heed their elders and betters.

Gamers interested in historical campaigns were given short shrift and had to either accept what the tiny equipment section in the Basic Set gave them or make up their own equipment rules. They were terrible times.

The people prayed for deliverance from their saviour, The Line Editor. They asked Him, 'Oh, thou who art wise in the ways of GURPS, lift thine gaze over us and give unto us thine Low-Tech, as your predecessors did in the days of The Third Edition'. And He was sympathetic to their plight. He dispatched his servants from his Heavens to walk among the people to ascertain what his dutiful followers wanted from this book.

There were giants in the earth in those days.

But the servants, in their time among the people, saw other games than GURPS. They knew these games as a player knows role-playing games. And they begat offspring with these games, bastard offspring the likes of which good youngsters such as yourselves could never conceive in an aeon of time.

They suggested that instead of giving the people Low-Tech, The Line Editor should give them Fantasy-Tech. Historical accuracy was for pedants and peasants, double-headed axes and flail-swords were where it was at.

The multitude raised a great hue and cry. 'Oh, Great and Merciful Line Editor, thou who art in Montréal, what is this we hear about Fantasy-Tech? Did we not ask for Low-Tech that reads like a dry history textbook and has little utility in games other than those run by SCA-members with OCD and no hobbies that do not include at least a week of research to understand?'

And Kromm said unto them: 'Listen, you ungrateful lot, no one has approved anything about Fantasy-Tech. The Low-Tech book will be a gear catalogue that will aim to be useful to anyone running a campaign at TL0-TL4. This is going to happen no matter what anyone calls it, because GURPS is generic and univeral and we support a range of play styles that spans all the way from that weird Icelander who mumbles to himself while modelling armour penetration to the high-flying acrobatic kung fu of the games I run for myself in the shower. They could call this book Cabaret Chicks on Ice for all I care and it would still aim to be useful to the vast body of GURPS players and not just a narrow subset of them.'

Chastised, the people subsided. Then, someone realised that Kromm had promised the people that everyone would have what they wanted, just as soon as Cabaret Chicks on Ice was released.

There was general rejoicing, apart from that blasted segment of the tribe who is not happy about anything.

A few did not believe in the promised coming of the fabled CCoI, others said that once it was published, Nazis would once more ride dinosaurs and hunt down the forces of good. To those doubters, I say to ye, ye're a bunch of nancy-pantsed willow-wallowers an' should all bugger off.

Now, which of you whippersnappers is going to fetch me another ale? I find myself powerful thirsty after all this talespinning.

[Gavynn]

Ooooo ... great story Grandpa Icelander :)

[Rickoise]

Originally Posted by Mgellis

I'm not sure if there is a section for vehicles in the new Low-Tech, but...

In Basic Set, High-Tech, Ultra-Tech, and Changing Times, the baseline formula for vehicles was HP = 4 x cube root (weight in lbs.).

However, in Fantasy, the formula was HP = 8 x cube root (weight in lbs.)

I imagine the reason was that "unpowered" vehicles are "homogeneous," but this creates serious game balance and plausibility issues.

A 500-ton TL 4 sailing ship should not have the same HP as a 4,000-ton TL 8 Perry-class frigate.

A 500-ton TL 4 sailing ship is NOT a homogeneous block of wood. It is an extremely complex machine...it just happens to rely on wind power rather than diesel power or steam power or whatever.

So, if there are vehicles in Low-Tech, I hope this is taken into account when determining their HP.

Mark

I'm sorry but this reminds me of the end of saving private Ryan when he shoots the tank with his pistol
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUmLaUlACp8 about 4 minutes into this vide0)