Psionics 4th ed Questions

[rcarter]

Some of the powers in this pdf are mind boggling to me maybe i just haven't
digested it yet but i want to get a good handle on it before i try and use it.


1st

Divination - combat sense

It says that you're defense bonus is equal your success margin but then it
says that further levels increase your defense bonus. I don't get it. Does
the additional bonus add to your bonus after you make the roll, so if you
suceed by 2 but you have combat sense 3 your total bonus is equal to 5?


Statistics: Combat Reflexes (Active defense and “freeze”
benefits only, -20%; ESP, -10%; Requires IQ Roll, -10%) [9] +
Danger Sense (Only to detect surprise attacks, -20%; Based on
IQ, +20%) [15]. Further levels add Defense Bonus (ESP, -10%;
Requires IQ Roll, -10%) [24/level]. Defense Bonus is a metatrait
from GURPS Supers (p. 34).

2nd

Autoteleport

Additional levels increase range but on the teleportation modifiers it lists all
distances. I'm assuming that you have to buy the increased distance before
you can teleport that far regardless of penalties and prep?


3rd

General. Alot of techniques cost 2 FP. So i assume that using the base
power w/o technique costs 0 FP?

4th

Power design.

How did the author use the GURPS powers rules to factor in skill
penalties/modifiers to the total costs of powers?


5th

I want to design a psionically manifested energy sword. I was surprised that
psionic powers didn't cover it.

there are the modifiers melee attack(p20) but that is touch only, and the
limitation weaponized(p21) but that seems to only translate a ranged attack
to a touch (C) attack.


An energy sword would be a C,1 attack and i don't see anything like this.

EDIT: Maybe something moderately based on Astral Sword? But Would it fall
under psychokinesis?

EDIT: What about the rules in powers for buying a power tree where you purchase one advantage and then get a discount on subsequent related advantages? Could a player purchase Divination Combat sense and then get disounts on purchasing prognostication and retrocognition claiming that they are all parts of the same identical power?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by rcarter

Divination - combat sense

It says that you're defense bonus is equal your success margin but then it says that further levels increase your defense bonus. I don't get it. Does the additional bonus add to your bonus after you make the roll, so if you suceed by 2 but you have combat sense 3 your total bonus is equal to 5?

The margin of success only matters when you want to use more than one active defense in a turn... your bonus will always equal your levels in Combat Sense.

[rcarter]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

The margin of success only matters when you want to use more than one active defense in a turn... your bonus will always equal your levels in Combat Sense.

oh i see, your bonus is equal to your combat sense, your margin of success determines how many times you that turn you get that bonus. Thanks.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by rcarter

Divination - combat sense

It says that you're defense bonus is equal your success margin but then it
says that further levels increase your defense bonus. I don't get it. Does
the additional bonus add to your bonus after you make the roll, so if you
suceed by 2 but you have combat sense 3 your total bonus is equal to 5?

Your level alone determines the bonus to your active defenses. The Margin of success is the number of active defenses you may apply the bonus to in a turn.

Originally Posted by rcarter

Autoteleport

Additional levels increase range but on the teleportation modifiers it lists all
distances. I'm assuming that you have to buy the increased distance before
you can teleport that far regardless of penalties and prep?

Yes. It is easier to make a short hop than a long one regardless of your maximum range.

Originally Posted by rcarter

General. Alot of techniques cost 2 FP. So i assume that using the base
power w/o technique costs 0 FP?

Unless otherwise stated, yes. They are inspired and based on Power Techniques and Temporary Enhancements (GURPS Powers,
pp. 162 and 172).

Originally Posted by rcarter

Power design.

How did the author use the GURPS powers rules to factor in skill
penalties/modifiers to the total costs of powers?

Well, penalties and modifiers always occur, you'll have to be more specific there. The addition of a skill is (I think) a zero point feature that's part of the "PSI" Power source. It balances the disadvantage of needing a skill with the benefit of being able to improve it easily

Originally Posted by rcarter

5th

I want to design a psionically manifested energy sword. I was surprised that
psionic powers didn't cover it.

there are the modifiers melee attack(p20) but that is touch only, and the
limitation weaponized(p21) but that seems to only translate a ranged attack
to a touch (C) attack.


An energy sword would be a C,1 attack and i don't see anything like this.

EDIT: Maybe something moderately based on Astral Sword? But Would it fall
under psychokinesis?

What do you want it to do? for pure damage, this is easy to do...

Originally Posted by rcarter

EDIT: What about the rules in powers for buying a power tree where you purchase one advantage and then get a discount on subsequent related advantages? Could a player purchase Divination Combat sense and then get disounts on purchasing prognostication and retrocognition claiming that they are all parts of the same identical power?

Are you referring to Alternative Abilities? If so, sure! They're just different ways of using your ESP. Just keep in mind you have to use a ready maneuver to change which "channel" your power is set to. (remember, passive abilities are worthless if they're not the ready ability!)

[PK]

Originally Posted by rcarter

Some of the powers in this pdf are mind boggling to me maybe i just haven't digested it yet but i want to get a good handle on it before i try and use it.

Well, I apologize for any mental boggling, but I'll be more than happy to offer my unboggling skills to make up for it. :)

Autoteleport

Additional levels increase range but on the teleportation modifiers it lists all distances. I'm assuming that you have to buy the increased distance before you can teleport that far regardless of penalties and prep?

Exactly. If I have Autoteleport 7, I can choose to teleport any distance up to 500 yards. I have to look up that distance on the Teleportation Modifiers table and take the penalty. So if I wanted to go 80 yards, I'd be at -2 to skill. But I can't go more than 500 yards, no matter how much of a penalty I'm willing to accept, without using Extra Effort (p. 7).

And the penalties don't change at all when your power level changes. If I buy my Autoteleport up to level 12, I'm still at the same -2 penalty to jump 80 yards. But now I have the option of taking a -8 penalty to jump from the USA to China -- something I couldn't do at power level 7. (This means that, as you raise your Autoteleport power level, it's just as important to improve your skill, since jumping farther distances means accepting greater skill penalties.)

General. Alot of techniques cost 2 FP. So i assume that using the base power w/o technique costs 0 FP?

Since none of the rules in Chapter One mention spending FP for non-Getting-Tricky uses of psi, you are correct that there is no FP cost. Psi isn't spells. The very few psi abilities in Chapter Three that do require a FP cost to use all state their FP cost explicitly; if you don't see a FP cost mentioned, there is none.

How did the author use the GURPS powers rules to factor in skill penalties/modifiers to the total costs of powers?

I'll echo what's already been said here: Could you be more specific? I'll be happy to answer this, but I'm honestly not sure what you're asking.

I want to design a psionically manifested energy sword. I was surprised that psionic powers didn't cover it.

Your view of "psi" will be different than my view, of course. But I haven't seen many "psi weapons" turn up outside of superhero comics. In fact, GURPS 3rd Edition had a psionic sword ("Mindsword") and I'd heard many people complain about it being unrealistic or silly. Beth McCoy told me that she changed it in her game to only work on the astral plane, and that was the inspiration for Astral Sword.

there are the modifiers melee attack(p20) but that is touch only, and the limitation weaponized(p21) but that seems to only translate a ranged attack to a touch (C) attack.

An energy sword would be a C,1 attack and i don't see anything like this.

EDIT: Maybe something moderately based on Astral Sword? But Would it fall under psychokinesis?

No, Melee Attack isn't touch only. Read the description of the limitation -- "Melee Attack, C, 1" is a -20% limitation. I'd do it as a very weak attack with the ST-Based variant of Melee Attack, from GURPS Powers. I'd also add some sort of interesting secondary ability (like how Astral Sword can banish foes), to make it more than just "I have a knife I can't drop" (which is kinda boring). Something like:

Psychic Sword (7 points/level)

Skill: Psychic Sword (DX/H); defaults to DX-6 or Force Sword-2.

Description: You can manifest a translucent sword of softly glowing energy. This sword is gauzy and difficult to see; those nearby must make a Per+2 roll, minus range penalties, to notice the weapon in your hand. Unlike Astral Sword, this psychokinetic weapon is capable of harming flesh and blood. You may swing or thrust with it.

Swinging attacks do swing+(level) cutting damage. For example, if you have Psychic Sword at power level 8, you would do sw+8 cut. If you injure the target, he must roll against HT, at a -1 penalty for every 2 full points of injury taken, or be mentally stunned from the psionic energy of your attack. He may roll HT (at no penalty) to recover each turn.

Thrusting attacks work the same way, but do thrust+(level) impaling damage, which can be much more harmful. In addition, a failed HT roll leaves the target not only stunned, but at -3 to HT for (20-HT) minutes. This is a flat HT penalty -- multiple Psychic Sword attacks will not double it, triple it, etc. -- but it does affect his rolls to recover from being stunned, and to resist being stunned by subsequent Psychic Sword attacks!

Statistics: Impaling Attack 1 point (Low Signature, +10%; Melee Attack, C, 1, ST-Based, +80%; Psychokinesis, -10%; Side Effect, Stunning and Attribute Penalty of HT-3, +65%; Variable, +5%) [6] + Cutting Attack 1 point (Low Signature, +10%; Melee Attack, C, 1, ST-Based, +80%; Psychokinesis, -10%; Side Effect, Stunning, +50%; Variable, +5%) [1]*.

* This is an Alternative Attack to Impaling Attack, priced at x1/5 normal cost.

Techniques: As for Astral Sword.

Note: The calculations here follow the rules in the box Innate Attacks and Partial Dice (p. 53). I specifically chose the modifiers to make Cutting Attack come to a nice, even 5 points/level (2.1 points * 2.35 from the +135% in enhancements), then I took those and added another +15% to Impaling Attack to make it come to an even 6 points/level (2.4 points * 2.5 from the +150%).

EDIT: What about the rules in powers for buying a power tree where you purchase one advantage and then get a discount on subsequent related advantages? Could a player purchase Divination Combat sense and then get disounts on purchasing prognostication and retrocognition claiming that they are all parts of the same identical power?

Sure, if the GM agrees with it. Remember that only abilities which could logically be "the same sense, only used differently" would be appropriate Alternative Abilities. I think most ESP Divination abilities make sense as AAs of each other, though, yes.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

The addition of a skill is (I think) a zero point feature that's part of the "PSI" Power source. It balances the disadvantage of needing a skill with the benefit of being able to improve it easily

Actually, not quite so. Skills are actually harder to improve [4/level] until you get an ability worth 80+ points (when Reliable starts costing too like skills or even more).

The only reason I see to wanting skills is the access to Power Techniques. (While not explicitly stated anywhere, I suspect Power Techniques are not meant to be used with attributes, even though there are mundane technique precedents such as the ST-based Neck Snap.)

[rcarter]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Well, I apologize for any mental boggling, but I'll be more than happy to offer my unboggling skills to make up for it. :)

Thank you very much for your response. You are my new favorite person in the world for the week. I think you answered all my questions.

[I'll echo what's already been said here: Could you be more specific? I'll be happy to answer this, but I'm honestly not sure what you're asking.

Well looking over the book and analyzing power cost and structures some
things came to mind. 1stly it clarified some things in the characters book
wherein it is said that psionics frequently required skill rolls and that the power talents effected skill rolls but
very few advantages required skill rolls. 2ndly These core rules that you
designed for psionic powers is a fantastic detailed system that makes things
a bit more crunchy and usable and i realized that by taking a referenced
ability and simply changing the power modifier ESP, PSI etc with something
like Divine, MAgic, SPririt etc this basic system could be modified to suit a
variety of campaigns and situations.

But my question refers to the actual CP of the system's modifiers. For example i can understand psi-power 'X' - requires att/skill roll, but what about psi-power 'x' -requires att/skill roll -4? Like the techniques or the effect that psi abilities take a penalty during subsequent uses on the same target or after a failure. Is this just unpointed crunch that falls under the psi modifier or are their exact CP cost rulings somewhere that i am missing?

Your view of "psi" will be different than my view, of course. But I haven't seen many "psi weapons" turn up outside of superhero comics. In fact, GURPS 3rd Edition had a psionic sword ("Mindsword") and I'd heard many people complain about it being unrealistic or silly.


No, Melee Attack isn't touch only. Read the description of the limitation -- "Melee Attack, C, 1" is a -20% limitation. I'd do it as a very weak attack with the ST-Based variant of Melee Attack, from GURPS Powers. I'd also add some sort of interesting secondary ability (like how Astral Sword can banish foes), to make it more than just "I have a knife I can't drop" (which is kinda boring). Something like:

Psychic Sword (7 points/level)

Skill: Psychic Sword (DX/H); defaults to DX-6 or Force Sword-2.

Description: You can manifest a translucent sword of softly glowing energy. Unlike Astral Sword, this psychokinetic weapon is capable of harming flesh and blood. You may swing or thrust with it.

Swinging attacks do swing+(level) cut damage. For example, if you have Psychic Sword at power level 8, you would do sw+8 cut damage. If the target is injured, he must roll against HT, at a -1 penalty for every 2 full points of damage taken, or be mentally stunned from the psionic energy of your attack. He may roll HT to recover each turn.

Thrusting attacks work the same way, but do thrust+(level) impaling damage, which can be much more harmful. In addition, a failed HT roll leaves the target not only stunned, but at -3 to HT for (20-HT) minutes. This is a flat HT penalty -- multiple Psychic Sword attacks will not double it, triple it, etc. -- but it does affect his rolls to recover from being stunned, and to resist subsequent Psychic Sword attacks!

Statistics: Impaling Attack 1 point (Low Signature, +10%; Melee Attack, C, 1, ST-Based, +80%; Psychokinesis, -10%; Side Effect, Stunning and Attribute Penalty of HT-3, +65%; Variable, +5%) [6] + Cutting Attack 1 point (Low Signature, +10%; Melee Attack, C, 1, ST-Based, +80%; Psychokinesis, -10%; Side Effect, Stunning, +50%; Variable, +5%) [1]*.

* This is an Alternative Attack to Impaling Attack, priced at x1/5 normal cost.

Techniques: As for Astral Sword.

Note: The calculations here follow the rules in the box Innate Attacks and Partial Dice (p. 53). I specifically chose the modifiers to make Cutting Attack come to a nice, even 5 points/level (2.1 points * 2.35 from the +135% in enhancements), then I took those and added another +15% to Impaling Attack to make it come to an even 6 points/level (2.4 points * 2.5 from the +150%).

Love it, Using it. Didn't even know that you could used Melee, str based to replicate a weapon attack...

Sure, if the GM agrees with it. Remember that only abilities which could logically be "the same sense, only used differently" would be appropriate Alternative Abilities. I think most ESP Divination abilities make sense as AAs of each other, though, yes.

[/QUOTE]


It was mentioned in an earlier post the greatest draw back to using this would be that you could only have one active power at a time including 'passive' abilities so i think this would probably only be good for ESP or Telepathy and such. but good to know.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

I'd also add some sort of interesting secondary ability (like how Astral Sword can banish foes), to make it more than just "I have a knife I can't drop" (which is kinda boring). Something like:

A knife that you can't drop would be a Perk.

[rcarter]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Psychic Sword (7 points/level)

Skill: Psychic Sword (DX/H); defaults to DX-6 or Force Sword-2.

Description: You can manifest a translucent sword of softly glowing energy. Unlike Astral Sword, this psychokinetic weapon is capable of harming flesh and blood. You may swing or thrust with it.



Statistics: Impaling Attack 1 point (Low Signature, +10%; Melee Attack, C, 1, ST-Based, +80%; Psychokinesis, -10%; Side Effect, Stunning and Attribute Penalty of HT-3, +65%; Variable, +5%) [6] + Cutting Attack 1 point (Low Signature, +10%; Melee Attack, C, 1, ST-Based, +80%; Psychokinesis, -10%; Side Effect, Stunning, +50%; Variable, +5%) [1]*.

* This is an Alternative Attack to Impaling Attack, priced at x1/5 normal cost.

Techniques: As for Astral Sword.

Where is the power modifier str-based at? Is it simply inferred by melee attack?

EDIT: I found it powers pg 103, it says +100% why did you choose +80%?

EDIT2: oh, i get it str based (+100%) is a modifier of melee attack (-20%) fora net of +80%.

[rcarter]

So i've been reading the book in more detail and i have to say i absolutely love the perks, they are very cool and very detailed minor abilities that i probably never would have thought of.

But here's something that i did think of

What about using psychokinesis to effect guns/bows - bullet flight paths, ricochet shots, adding extra oomhp to a projectile, reloading a weapon using tk grab etc? Any thoughts?

EDIT: I could probably stat this out on my own except for how to tag an innate attack as a piggy back modifier onto a gun/bullet/arrow, would it be a single manipulate object in flight with techniques modifiers similar to tk bullet?