Psionics 4th ed Questions

[rcarter]

So i've been reading the book in more detail and i have to say i absolutely love the perks, they are very cool and very detailed minor abilities that i probably never would have thought of.

But here's something that i did think of

What about using psychokinesis to effect guns/bows - bullet flight paths, ricochet shots, adding extra oomhp to a projectile, reloading a weapon using tk grab etc? Any thoughts?

EDIT: I could probably stat this out on my own except for how to tag an innate attack as a piggy back modifier onto a gun/bullet/arrow, would it be a single manipulate object in flight with techniques modifiers similar to tk bullet?

[PK]

Originally Posted by rcarter

Thank you very much for your response. You are my new favorite person in the world for the week.

Google "ShorDurPerSav". It's a very useful word for situations just like this. :)

Well looking over the book and analyzing power cost and structures some things came to mind. 1stly it clarified some things in the characters book wherein it is said that psionics frequently required skill rolls and that the power talents effected skill rolls but very few advantages required skill rolls.

True. Now, note that both the Basic Set and GURPS Powers don't require skills for each ability. However, GURPS Powers introduced that as an option, which seemed perfect for psi. So GURPS Psionic Powers takes the approach that part of being a psi ability is needing a skill, even though the psi in the Basic Set is all about attribute rolls (instead of skill rolls). Think of the GPP psi as a more detailed version of the Basic Set psi, for games which focus on psi more heavily.

But my question refers to the actual CP of the system's modifiers. For example i can understand psi-power 'X' - requires att/skill roll, but what about psi-power 'x' -requires att/skill roll -4? Like the techniques or the effect that psi abilities take a penalty during subsequent uses on the same target or after a failure. Is this just unpointed crunch that falls under the psi modifier or are their exact CP cost rulings somewhere that i am missing?

This is several different issues, actually. I'll address them separately.

Psi Techniques: See the box Under the Hood: Psi Techniques (p. 9) for details. The rules there are adapted from the rules for adding Temporary Enhancements in GURPS Powers (p. 172). Every +10% in enhancements being added is -1 to skill, and that's how I got the penalties for the psi techniques. For example, look at Telesend (p. 60). The Broadcast psi technique just adds the temporary enhancements Broadcast (+50%) and Selective Area (+20%). The total is +70%, so that's -7 to skill. Similarly, Full Communion just adds the new Full Communion enhancement (p. 17); that's a +20% enhancement, so that's -2 to skill, and so on.

Now, a few psi techniques are actually more complicated than that (and a few of those are a lot more complicated!), but the rules above cover 95% of them.

Penalties to skill for regular use: This just comes straight from the advantage rules. For example, look at Autoteleport (p. 68). It says that repeated attempts are at an extra -5 penalty. Where did I get that from? From the Warp advantage itself (p. B97), which says that on a failure, you're at -5 to try again right away. I didn't come up with any of these special penalties -- they're just straight out of the rules for each advantage or modifier.

Love it, Using it. Didn't even know that you could used Melee, str based to replicate a weapon attack...

I forgot one line. It should also say: "This sword is gauzy and difficult to see; those nearby must make a Per+2 roll, minus range penalties, to notice the weapon in your hand."

Why Per+2? Because a normal vision roll to see something in the open is Per+10. The SM of a sword is -4 (so, Per+6), and then GURPS Powers introduces the guidelines that Low Signature translates (more or less) into a -4 penalty to detect something, so Per+2.

So i've been reading the book in more detail and i have to say i absolutely love the perks, they are very cool and very detailed minor abilities that i probably never would have thought of.

Psionic perks are one of my favorite things about the book, too. I'm glad you like 'em. Over half came straight out of the playtest, so let me shout out some mad props to my playtestin' homies.

What about using psychokinesis to effect guns/bows - bullet flight paths, ricochet shots, adding extra oomhp to a projectile, reloading a weapon using tk grab etc? Any thoughts?

Unfortunately, this is one thing that the standard GURPS rules simply break at. It's easy (trivial, really) to stat up a power that applies an effect to one particular weapon. However, it is literally impossible to create a standard power that can apply that effect to any weapon imaginable, because the ability building rules require you to know how much range, damage, etc., the weapon can already do -- and once you've built it, what if someone comes along with a more powerful weapon?

That's why GURPS Power-Ups 1: Imbuements exists. It has new traits which let you apply effects like you want to any weapon of a given type. If you want this, I'd strongly recommend picking up that book, then you can make the Imbue advantage a psychokinetic one -- and instead of having one psionic skill, it can have whatever Imbuement skills are necessary to create the effect you want.

[rcarter]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Google "ShorDurPerSav". It's a very useful word for situations just like this. :)

I can't believe that you sent me on wild goose chase on the internet to find my home with the all powerful bob.

Unfortunately, this is one thing that the standard GURPS rules simply break at. It's easy (trivial, really) to stat up a power that applies an effect to one particular weapon. However, it is literally impossible to create a standard power that can apply that effect to any weapon imaginable, because the ability building rules require you to know how much range, damage, etc., the weapon can already do -- and once you've built it, what if someone comes along with a more powerful weapon?

That's why GURPS Power-Ups 1: Imbuements exists. It has new traits which let you apply effects like you want to any weapon of a given type. If you want this, I'd strongly recommend picking up that book, then you can make the Imbue advantage a psychokinetic one -- and instead of having one psionic skill, it can have whatever Imbuement skills are necessary to create the effect you want.

hmm, Imbuements are prohibitively expensive, though. I came up with a few ideas.

Innate attack similar to PK Bullet with the modifier requires a focus/delivery object. like breakable and can be stolen but not a unique item just one item class - arrow, bullet, gun. (This would be creating psi-bullets/arrows and using a gun/bow as a delivery object to channel/deliver the psi-energy and removing the damage of the original object all together)

Maybe a power structure more like your sword with incremental partial dice but instead of an innate attack it is a 'charge' attack that is temporarily passed onto an object - bullet, arrow and then delivered by the object when it hits it's target. (This would be using the original object, bullet/arrow damage and tacking on a limited 1pt/level damage modifier. Regardless of whether or not the rules cover it 1pt/level isn't going to break anyone's hearts.)

so that would cover the basic damage portion and then enhancements like guided, homing, would be techniques that could be applied to either delivery method?

I want to keep things a streamlined.

EDIT: I am determined to create a NPC Psychokinetic gunslinger

[Mateus]

Nice thread! If you don't mind I will use it for a question regarding Psionic Powers. What do you guys think about using Imbuements as part of a Psionic Power as they are in the Psionic Powers? I have made a quick read in PP and I'm reading the Imbuements now. I would put the imbuement advantage in every psi power and limit the skills that wich one can buy with it?

[PK]

Originally Posted by Mateus

Nice thread! If you don't mind I will use it for a question regarding Psionic Powers. What do you guys think about using Imbuements as part of a Psionic Power as they are in the Psionic Powers? I have made a quick read in PP and I'm reading the Imbuements now. I would put the imbuement advantage in every psi power and limit the skills that wich one can buy with it?

See post #20 of this very thread. I think that Imbuements would mix very well with Psionic Powers, yes. It's not an approach that I took, because that would've taken things in very specific direction which (IMO) might not have worked for (or felt right to) most people . . . but I could definitely get behind an "Imbuement Add-On" of some sort.

[vicky_molokh]

The problem with considering skills a Drawback - or whatever is the Powers name for it - is that, IIRC, it isn't listed as one.
Another thing to wonder about is that Reliable works as Talent for one ability, and Talent adds to Skill. I'm not sure, but even recall it being written rather explicitly.
Sure, GPP outright says not to use the two together, but that is a GPP-specific case.

. . . All of which boils it down to GM's decision.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Molokh

The problem with considering skills a Drawback - or whatever is the Powers name for it - is that, IIRC, it isn't listed as one.

Sure it is. See Source-Specific Rules (GURPS Powers, p. 174) -- it is considered one of the Limiting (i.e., "bad") Options.

. . . All of which boils it down to GM's decision.

Since the same can be said for (quite literally) 100% of the RAW, I'm more than willing to agree with your tautology. In other news, water is wet and the sky is high. :)

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Sure it is. See Source-Specific Rules (GURPS Powers, p. 174) -- it is considered one of the Limiting (i.e., "bad") Options.

Well... he did say "IIRC" </helpful>

In other news, water is wet and the sky is high.

More, as this story develops!

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Sure it is. See Source-Specific Rules (GURPS Powers, p. 174) -- it is considered one of the Limiting (i.e., "bad") Options.

Weird, as the original box (P162) states that the drawbacks and benefits balance out . . . despite the fact that this is only true for abilities of more than 80 points.

. . . Hmmm, it also states that Power Techniques in general default to attributes. Which indeed once again makes Power Skills a drawback. I wonder what's wrong with the P162 box that it mis-explained skills.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Molokh

I wonder what's wrong with the P162 box that it mis-explained skills.

Probably a lack of self-esteem, which manifests as a need to impress anyone it sees as a mother figure.