Babylon 5 campaign: some questions

[Harald387]

GURPS: Psionic Powers for 4th Edition should be coming out soon (or may already be out, I haven't been keeping track!), and will probably suit B5 psis perfectly. As others have noted, a high P-rating is mostly a social benefit; I'd judge it to be a Rank advantage, in fact, determining what the character's status within Psi-Corps is.

From a campaign standpoint, lots of points in Psi powers will grant you a high P-rating; someone with Psychic Illusions and Mind Blast will probably be a P11 or P12, where someone with Empathy and nothing else will probably be a P1. From a character creation standpoint, however, you simply require characters to buy a higher P-rating to go along with their more powerful psi abilities. It's not quite an unusual background - there are other concrete benefits to being a P11 - but there's nothing at all wrong with requiring some advantages in order to buy others.

I'd also note that, with two notable exceptions, it doesn't seem like B5-verse psis could do much in terms of training or practice to *increase* their abilities or add new ones; the Psi Corps taught a measure of control and skill (represented by greater skill at using the powers, or higher Talent), but it doesn't seem like there was much in the way of 'adding new abilities through training'. Your set of abilities determined your P-rating, and that was that. I'd generally not allow a B5 psi to buy new abilities without some significant story justification (frex, "the Vorlons rewired your brain").

[zorg]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

Though a high Psi rating is a prerequisite for certain abilities.

No - certain abilities mean that you have a high rating.

The Psi Rating doesn't have a mechanical effect beyond social impressiveness. It's a shorthand for "How poweful are the characters abilities." imo.

[Kuroshima]

Lainier Lainier, you've fallen to the pits of hell! you'll not leave this forum unchanged! (for those wondering, he's part of my gaming group, and we alternate GMing. Right now, he's preparing his Babylon 5 game while I GM supers).

As they have told you, make P-ratting be something that is derived from your psi powers (so it's more like I can do XXX so I'm P-YY than I'm P-YY so I can do XXX). Another option is structure psi powers in P-levels, for a structure like this:

P-ratting is a leveled advantage that costs 1/level.

P-5:

• Prerequisites: P-5 [5]
• Abilities: XXX, YYY, ZZZ,...

P-6

• Prerequisites: 10 points in P-5 abilities, P-6
• Abilities: WWW, UUU, VVV,...

P-7

• Prerequisites: 10 points in P-7 abilities, P-7
• Abilities: WWW, UUU, VVV,...

[Stone Dog]

Originally Posted by zorg

Keep in mind that the *effect* of a high Psi Rating is purely social: it's useful to climb the Corps career ladder, nothing else. The cost of your actual psi abilities is solely depending on their effect. In other words, a "high rating" is shorthand for "lots of CPs in psi abilities" - it's a descriptor, not necessarily a mechanic.

I agree with this. It is simply a rough estimate of what somebody is capable of and not a standard spell-list type of ranking.

If somebody developed a power early they would be a fascinating anomaly, but it is probably something that can happen.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by zorg

No - certain abilities mean that you have a high rating.

The Psi Rating doesn't have a mechanical effect beyond social impressiveness. It's a shorthand for "How poweful are the characters abilities." imo.

If you have both, you have both. It doesn't matter if the hen of the egg came first.

Though you cannot have certain powerful abilities without having a high P-rating, you can have a high P-rating without having those abilities. Or that's how I see it anyway. You're born with your P-rating, but you can learn new abilities.

Regarding new abilities, I would allow a player to learn new abilities available to his P-rating as if he had a talent.

[Harald387]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

If you have both, you have both. It doesn't matter if the hen of the egg came first.

Though you cannot have certain powerful abilities without having a high P-rating, you can have a high P-rating without having those abilities. Or that's how I see it anyway. You're born with your P-rating, but you can learn new abilities.

Regarding new abilities, I would allow a player to learn new abilities available to his P-rating as if he had a talent.

Again barring the three notable exceptions - Talia Winters, Lyta Alexander, and Jason Ironheart - I don't see any example or mention of telepaths who gain new abilities as time goes on. From an in-character standpoint, you're tested for given abilities and you get assigned a P-rating based on the abilities you have. From a game-system standpoint, you buy abilities, and you buy the P-rating for those abilities, and that's that. You can increase your level of skill and control with those abilities (power talent, or skill at using powers), but a P5 can't develop Mind Probe (Invasive) and become a P8.

[Dragondog]

Originally Posted by Harald387

Again barring the three notable exceptions - Talia Winters, Lyta Alexander, and Jason Ironheart - I don't see any example or mention of telepaths who gain new abilities as time goes on. From an in-character standpoint, you're tested for given abilities and you get assigned a P-rating based on the abilities you have. From a game-system standpoint, you buy abilities, and you buy the P-rating for those abilities, and that's that. You can increase your level of skill and control with those abilities (power talent, or skill at using powers), but a P5 can't develop Mind Probe (Invasive) and become a P8.

I never said a P5 can become a P8, though as you said there are exceptions. What I said was that you are born with a certain P-rating, that doesn't change. But I don't think you have access to all your abilities when you are born, or whenever you manifest as a telepath.

Besides. if they have a talent, as you suggest, RAW says that they can gain new abilities based on that talent.

We don't see much about telepaths from other races, but we do know that Psi Corps trains telepaths extensively. Nothing I've seen of B5 states that you have to have all your abilities from the beginning.

[Harald387]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

I never said a P5 can become a P8, though as you said there are exceptions. What I said was that you are born with a certain P-rating, that doesn't change. But I don't think you have access to all your abilities when you are born, or whenever you manifest as a telepath.

Ivanova is an empath, and very mildly so at that. No amount of Psi-Corps training would ever make her any more than an empath, though she might become better at reading people with practice (Powers as Skills covers this nicely). The P-rating, as I'd seen it, is an indicator of potential - 'You are this powerful, you can learn to do these things'.

Originally Posted by Dragondog

Besides. if they have a talent, as you suggest, RAW says that they can gain new abilities based on that talent.

We don't see much about telepaths from other races, but we do know that Psi Corps trains telepaths extensively. Nothing I've seen of B5 states that you have to have all your abilities from the beginning.

RAW says they can gain new abilities. However, if the GM says 'You're a P6, you can't buy Telecommunication (Telesend, Universal, Unlimited Range)' then you can't buy that any more than you could buy Burning Attack in a mundane game.

It's said frequently through the series that 'A P6 shouldn't be able to do X', or 'Only a P11 or higher can learn to do Y and Z'. This implies that a wide range of abilities are outside the reach of lower P-ratings, no matter how much they try to learn them.

[Lainier]

Originally Posted by Dragondog

What I said was that you are born with a certain P-rating, that doesn't change.

I'm not sure about that. In the pilot episode, Lyta said: "It takes years to train for a P5 classification and half of those who try burn out or end up vegetables." So maybe it's possible to increase P-rating, but at a risk.

[baakyocalder]

The real question for you as a GM, is how easy it is to increase psionic abilities and what the overall power distribution is.

While it's not specifically on psionics, pages 131-135 and 138 (power levels) of GURPS 4e Supers would be worth reading in light of your psionics in B5 GURPS. These pages cover how the superhero population is distributed, its growth rate, its rate that supers disappear at, super career length and how different power levels would matter. Making those determinations and doing some math lets you establish your psi population structure.

That way you're worrying less about the starting power level of PCs, who are exceptional people anyways and thus usually the ones who break the rules, and more about the general place of psionics in the setting.